Episode 221: Echo Sandburg, Chief Brand Officer of CP Skin Health

12.07.2022

Summary

When asked what she wanted to be when she grew up, Echo Sandburg responded, “an astronaut.” Since she was a little girl, she knew her dreams involved traveling far and wide. While her career path didn’t steer her to space, it took her to places such as California, Hong Kong, Texas, and Arizona! Today Echo Sandburg is the Chief Brand Officer of Colgate-Palmolive Skin Health. She is a talented marketer and industry leader who guides growth efforts for EltaMD and two other well-known skincare brands (PCA Skincare, the leader in peels, and Filorga, an innovative luxury skincare brand from France).

In this episode of WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™, we discuss pushing yourself out of your comfort zone to get further in your career, the value of being adaptable and flexible, and the importance of embracing the present. We also get on a more personal note with Echo, discussing her goals, her passion for skin health, her family, and more!

Transcript

Jodi Katz	Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty. Today, we are continuing our Health-themed quarter. I am so excited for today’s guest because it’s someone I have had the pleasure of working very closely with for the past few years with EltaMD. You might know it as the dermatologist’s favorite sunscreen brand. Today, we are so lucky to be joined by Echo Sandburg. She’s the chief brand officer of CP Skin Health. So, that means Colgate-Palmolive. So, Echo is a talented marketer and an industry leader, who leads growth efforts for EltaMD and two other well-known skincare brands, PCA Skincare, the leader in peels, and Filorga, an innovative luxury skincare brand from France. I most recently saw Echo in New York City when she was presenting onstage at the Melanoma Research Foundation Gala, and that was amazing. Echo, welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty.
Echo Sandburg	Thank you, Jodi. I’m so excited to be here.
Jodi Katz	This took a really long time to happen, by the way. We’ve been asking for your team for like, years to do this, and I’m so excited that we were finally able to make this happen.
Echo Sandburg	I know. I was thinking back, because you and I’ve personally known each other now for—since 2019. And so much has happened—COVID, everything happened. So I’m glad that we were able to make this happen now.
Jodi Katz	Wendy is telling us that EltaMD is the best. She loves it, and she uses the one with hyaluronic acid.
Echo Sandburg	Awesome. Thank you so much, Wendy. Really appreciate it.
Jodi Katz	So, Echo, I want to start with my favorite question, because this is a career journey show. So, go back to your 10-year-old self. Close your eyes. What do you want to be when you grow up?
Echo Sandburg	Okay. You’re gonna laugh at my answer here. But it probably tells you a little bit about me and who I am as a person. But if I were to go back to my 10-year-old self, I wanted to be either an astronaut, a veterinarian, or an interior designer. And I know that’s quite the range of things. But I think that it shows that I’m a very curious person. I like to understand how things work, how they go together. I’ve definitely always loved science. So I think the astronaut and veterinarian brings that, my love of science or love of possibilities. But as analytical as I am, I definitely have the creative side. So I’ve always needed to have something creative to spark my interest. And so, when I was younger, I thought interior design was interesting. But I think that looking at that from my younger self to now, that’s probably why I ended up in marketing. And I think it’s kind of that blend of science and art that comes together. And being able to use data to find an insight and turn that into action is really magical.
Jodi Katz	Okay. You totally set up the next question, so thank you for doing that for me. Because I think that the astronaut, the vet, and the interior designer totally is your career. I mean, I know you’re not a trained astronaut or a trained interior designer. But you’ve kind of done all this stuff in your career in one way or another. You’ve touched on this. So let’s help everybody out. You worked in the space of animal care with Hills for a really long time. So I mean, you weren’t a vet, but you were hanging out with them all the time. So this is very close to your childhood passion.
Echo Sandburg	That’s right. I mean, I know many vets. I’ve worked with and am friends with many vets. So yeah, it definitely—that connection and passion has definitely come through. And I love animals, I love people, I love skin. So the thread has pulled through.
Jodi Katz	All right. So now I’m gonna pull through the astronaut one. And maybe this is a leap, but an astronaut travels quite far for their job. And you’ve lived, it feels like, everywhere in your career. So if you could just tell us all, all the different places you’ve lived for different jobs, and then we’ll dissect it all.
Echo Sandburg	Okay. So I’m originally from the middle of the country. So I’m from Kansas originally. Then for my career, I went to California for five years. I was in southern California. I came back to Kansas. Then I made the bigger move to Hong Kong. And after being in Hong Kong for three years, I went to Dallas, Texas, and now I’m in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Jodi Katz	So when you were in college looking for that first job, were you like, “I want to travel. I want to see the world through my career”?
Echo Sandburg	I think even—you asked the question about what I was like with my younger self. I think even being younger—so I’m from a small town. And I always—I remember just thinking about the world’s a bigger place. And this sounds funny, but looking at the stars and thinking, “What’s out there? What am I gonna do in the future?” And so, when I first got my first real job and was able to travel for work, I thought, “This is amazing. I can’t believe they’re paying me to go and travel for work.” And I just would meet new people, learn new things, and loved that experience of it all. And so much so that when we were doing career conversations, I raised my hand and said that, “Yeah, I’m willing to relocate within the US, or I’d be willing to relocate abroad, perhaps.” Especially after that first move that I did to California and how much I was able to learn from that, that just changed my perspective, and I was kind of hooked on going new places.
Jodi Katz	When you were in California, were you thinking, “I’m definitely gonna stay here for a few years and go to another place”? Was this sort of inside of you all the time?
Echo Sandburg	So that was my first professional move. And when I went there, my manager, senior manager at the time, said, “Don’t get comfortable.” And I was like, “But wait, California is a great—especially southern California. It’s a great, wonderful place to be and to live.” And so, I had that in the back of my mind. But I was able to actually do a couple of roles while I was there. So I was there for five years, so it was a good amount of time. And I guess something I took from that experience was, my first two years, I sort of lived like, “Oh, I’m not here very long.” Because “Don’t get comfortable.” But I changed that mindset, because it’s like, be present wherever you are, whenever you are, and connect with everything that’s there. Because I was like, “Oh, I’m not gonna join this volleyball league.” I love volleyball. “Because I’m not gonna be here that long.” And then I was there for five years. So that definitely changed my perspective, that no matter what, dive right in to wherever you are, and you never know.
Jodi Katz	So like, diving in, when you moved to Asia, what did diving in look like for you at that time?
Echo Sandburg	Oh my gosh. It was like sensory overload at the beginning. And the funny thing is, I’d never been to Asia when I said I would move to Asia overall, so that was pretty fun. And diving right in was really, for me, listening, learning, seeking to understand before I was moving forward with an idea or opinion or whatever. I really wanted to understand. There were so many nuances to the business, so many nuances to the culture. And I lived in Hong Kong, but I worked across 10 countries. And Asia’s not Asia, is what a lot of us there like to say, is that Thailand is so different than China, and it’s different than India. So, diving in was really to listen and learn from the team. I still have so many close colleagues and friends that were able to teach me so much and were so accepting. And that’s something that I keep as a reminder. And you’re reminding me again, as Thanksgiving’s coming up, because we’ve got colleagues that are from other countries that are here now. People were so welcoming. When you’re so far away from home, it was nice to have that. So it’s a reminder to sort of welcome others, and if they’re in a place that’s more familiar to you than to them.
Jodi Katz	When you were in this role in Hong Kong, were you actually traveling to these 10 different markets within Asia frequently?
Echo Sandburg	I was, yes.
Jodi Katz	So you saw it all.
Echo Sandburg	I saw it all. And some of the countries, it’s easy to get along with English. Others, it’s difficult. And again, I was able to do everything with the support of others around me. I still think of Carmen. Carmen, if you get a chance to watch this—she’s sleeping, I’m sure, right now—special people along the way helped me get through and navigate the time zones, the currencies, the different metric and all the different systems. But yeah, I was there on the ground across all the countries.
Jodi Katz	When I—before I started my agency, I worked for a French company based in France, and I do not speak French. And you’re reminding me about this time when I would be in France and have kind of no clue what’s going on. And the people around me were so welcoming and so helpful. I learned some great language skills just being around them, and some really funny moments. Like I remember getting off the plane, going straight to the head office. And I asked this woman who I’d worked with over the phone or over email for a long time, “Where can I find the bathroom?” And she was so confused, because she’s like, “You need to take a shower?” Right? So I’ll never forget that, right? I needed the restroom or the toilet, right, in her world, and not the bathroom. And it’s so fun to have these new experiences.
Echo Sandburg	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	So I want to ask you, what advice would you have for somebody who wants to make travel a part of their career? How do you even navigate this, whether in a small organization or a big organization, to find this opportunity?
Echo Sandburg	Well, I think from my personal experience, and that’s what I can speak from, is that travel and a successful career can go hand-in-hand together. And it hands-down has helped me as an individual, as a person, as a leader, be better overall because of those experiences. So, the first thing I would say—give two points of advice. The first one is to be open. And as I mentioned, I thought if I were to get an opportunity, I’d be going to Europe, Australia, something familiar. And Asia came up. And my first reaction was, “Oh my gosh. This is crazy.” And I had to go back and talk with my family and see if this was gonna be the right thing. And we decided to make the leap and lean in. And because we were open, it was a fabulous experience overall. But the other side is, be open, but be true to yourself. And you really have to think about, you don’t do it alone. The support is not only colleagues, but your family around you. So it needs to work for you and your significant other, your kids. And that’s part of who you are as a person. So it may not always be the right time. It may never be the right time. So be true to who you are and what your needs are, and talk to your manager, because you don’t have to relocate to have a fulfilling career. And like, what are the ways that you could make sure you get those experiences would be important to focus on. And you always can travel personally too if you want to travel and still be able to stay at your home base.
Jodi Katz	If you were to pick out some words that you think your kids would use to summarize the experience of being in all these different places, living and really living there, not just staying there, what words do you think they would use?
Echo Sandburg	Hm. I think, okay, the first word that comes to mind is just “flexibility.” You just realize that you can be flexible. Especially, again, those cultural differences. But things aren’t just one way. And so, that flexibility is one piece that would come through. And then, again, I don’t know, “expansive” is coming to mind. Because again, the world is a bigger place. And my daughter’s best friend was from France, and my son’s best friend was from UK. And Hong Kong was a very international city, so we exposed to all different kinds of people. And that’s not only true of Hong Kong, but being in Texas and Arizona as well. And I guess that “adaptable” is the other piece. And even going from Texas to Arizona, that seems like a much smaller move overall. But my son’s going into middle school, so it was—for him to think about, “I love where I’m at. I’m comfortable. This is gonna make me uncomfortable.” But now he’s been able to kind of settle into that. And so, that adaptability, it kind of builds a little bit of character almost in a way, that if I face something that seems uncomfortable, I can get through it and things can actually be better and great from that experience.
Jodi Katz	Do you think your husband would pick the same words?
Echo Sandburg	Oh, I’m sure not. Who knows? I mean, we’re so different. We’re yin and yang. But that’s what’s great about it as well. I always do too many things. He’s always like, “Wait a second,” will do too little. So it’s the balance that makes it all work.
Jodi Katz	That’s so cool that he’s willing to go on the ride, though, with you.
Echo Sandburg	Yeah. We’ve been blessed that he’s able to still maintain his career. He’s able to work from home. So he’s been able to be kind of anywhere as we do that. And you said “go along for the ride.” He’ll love that, because he’s a cyclist. And that has been one of the big draws about Scottsdale, is there are so many great places to go hiking and cycling and all of the outdoor things. So that’s been great for him.
Jodi Katz	So I’ve never worked in an organization as big as Colgate. What does somebody say to their manager when they’re looking to explore the possibilities of moving and relocating for their job? What is the language that they should use?
Echo Sandburg	Well, I mean, at Colgate, there’s great different career planning opportunities and kind of processes. So we do something you call an individual development plan. And it’s a good time once a year to sit down and really reflect on what are your strengths, what are your opportunity areas, what experiences could you have to get you to where you may want to go? And part of that is, one of the questions are, “Are you open to relocation?” So that’s the first thing. But that’s why I say the “Be true to yourself,” because you don’t want to check the box just to check the box, because then they may come calling and say, “Hey, we’ve got this opportunity, and you said you were open to it.” So just make sure that that’s the right thing. But for within our organization, it was kind of hand-raising from that perspective, and looking at the work that you do now, and is there opportunities, again, without even having to move, that you can raise your hand for projects, or on the job experiences to kind of expand and grow in spaces that you know you need to grow. And that gives you an opportunity to be exposed to more people and other opportunities going forward.
Jodi Katz	So, this quarter that we’re in right now is about health. And let’s talk about health in general, right? You worked in pet health. Now you work in human health and skincare. I’m so curious, what learning did you pull over from the pet side that’s helped you extremely in the human skin side?
Echo Sandburg	Yeah. I’ve been asked this question before. Kind of like when you moved to Hong Kong, was it so crazy and different? But when you moved from pet nutrition to skin health, how did you do that? There are so many things that have translated, and actually so much that it surprised me how well my past experience really helped to prepare me for my current world. So the company that I had worked with or the brand that I worked on was known, was the top veterinary-recommended food for both wellness and therapeutic products. And so, there’s definitely that health connection there. So, animal health versus skin health. And really, the nuances of managing a premium and professionally recommended brand, for sure. That translated. And even though you are professional recommended, being people-centric in your solutions and with your two different audiences, your consumers and your professional partners. The understanding of professionals. And surprise, surprise, but vet techs and veterinarians, some of their opportunities, some of their challenges, it’s the same that estheticians and dermatologists face. They didn’t go to business school. They went to make a difference and transform pet or human health. So there’s a lot of things that I was able to carry over from that learning. And I’ve had the privilege of being on very science-based brands and products. And how can you simplify that so people can understand what there is to offer from a science perspective? And I would say that, last but not least, if you don’t know Hills, it’s such a great forward-thinking digitally-based company. And that, the importance of having a digital vision, I think is critical. And if we think about modern marketing, whether it’s, again, B2B or B2C, digital’s not a separate thing. It should be embedded in everything you’re doing from a marketing perspective. So, being able to draw upon experiences from the Hill side, and whether it’s tools or processes or mindset as we’re sort of building that out within the skin health world was definitely something I’ve been able to draw on.
Jodi Katz	I don’t know if I’ve ever told you this, but this is what I say to my team—I just follow Echo. If Echo has something on her mind about some digital initiative or priority, that means the whole world is gonna care about this soon. So whatever Echo says, I’m just following along. Because you really have such a talent in keeping your team ahead, right? And even if it’s a year out to make the thing happen, it’s on your mind. You’re planning for it. And then I’ve really watched over the past few years, okay, Echo’s talking about this. A year later, everyone else is talking about it. So, it’s a really fun ride to be on to follow along and watch this happen. And it’s like, scientific. I have proof. This happens consistently.
Echo Sandburg	No, thank you. I think it’s an exciting time to be in marketing. And it’s interesting just to look at how much it’s changed over the time that I’ve been in marketing. And the world is like that. The world is fast-paced and moving. So, being able to think about what’s the brand experience you’re trying to deliver, what’s the customer experience, and bringing that to life in all aspects of what you do. But no, you did not tell me that before.
Jodi Katz	It’s true. So, I want to talk about the relationships that you make, because I’ve watched you develop real friendships with derms and estes, right? And that to me is one of the most fun things with my job, is getting to talk to experts. And they’re not just experts, they’re humans, right? Do you still have a lot of vet friends? Because I’m sure you were similar in the vet space too. And how do you maintain these relationships even if they’re not supremely relevant to the job right now?
Echo Sandburg	For sure. And so, I have pets as well. So I also try to personally not text my vet friends with all these pet questions, because I know the vets and the derms and all the physicians get these questions all the time. But yeah, I’ve had the privilege to work with so many amazing professionals. And like I said, the specialty’s different, but there’s so many core things that carry over. And we’ve had some really great conversations on how you can be inspired from one specialty to the next, and look at things in a different way, and provide solutions. So, 100%, I still keep in touch with several of my either colleagues or other professionals, external professionals that I had the privilege of meeting along the way. And I’m so glad, again, post-COVID, because now you can actually—just being able to see people in person that you know and being around them has been great. So, yeah, for sure.
Jodi Katz	So, I have DMed some of my derm friends for advice, I’ll call it, because they can’t give medical advice over DMs. I’m curious, have you ever asked for a little help?
Echo Sandburg	Well, so I—when it comes to skin health, we have an advisory board. So I feel like that’s different. So I will ask them on, “How do you feel about this?” or “What do you think the profession is thinking about that?” So I do from that perspective. But if I have a real skin issue, I try to go into my in real life derm for that.
Jodi Katz	Over the summer, my sun was at a wrestling camp in the Midwest, so super far from us for a whole four weeks. And wrestling is a gross sport when it comes to skin disease. So, he—I would FaceTime with him, and he had this gross lesion on his ear. I’m like, “What is that?” By the way, he didn’t even tell us what was going on, right? We just happened to notice it. And he’s like, “Yeah, they didn’t take me to the doctor.” I’m like, “You have to go to the doctor. This is not okay.”
Echo Sandburg	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	So I’m like, he is so far away for so many weeks. I’m not there to take him to the doctor. So I literally DMed my network and I’m like, “I need help. I need armament to call the head of the camp and be like, ‘This is probably what it is. You have to go to a doctor.’” So, it worked. I will not—no one dispensed medical advice, but I got some reassurances. And I needed that. And it was so amazing, the power of social media to be able to help me there.
Echo Sandburg	Well, you mentioned we saw each other recently at the Melanoma Research Foundation Gala. And that came up in topic of conversation with a few of the dermatologists, is the other way. What if you’re in real life, and you see someone at the airport? And they each had a story. Like Dr. Portello, who I know you know as well, he said he saw somebody at TSA that had a suspicious spot on their face. And the first time, he was like, “No, no, no, this is invasive.” He came back again, and like, this is meant to be, and went and said, “Hey, you should get this looked at.” He said, “Oh, I did, and they said it’s okay.” He’s like, “Go in again. Make sure you check this.” I think it’s kind of probably both ways, especially when it comes to something like skin cancer, where it’s hard not to speak up if you see someone.
Jodi Katz	Yeah. I guess it was meant to be if he saw this person twice, right? I’m proud of him for saying something. It would have eaten at him if he didn’t, right?
Echo Sandburg	I know. Yeah, I’m sure.
Jodi Katz	So, let’s talk about the topic of success. This is a really important topic for me. I examine it often. And when I started my career, I thought success meant money, you know? Like, I thought that was very one-dimensional. Now for me, it’s freedom or flexibility. I’m curious, if you think back early in your career, how did you define success in your mind?
Echo Sandburg	Yeah, I was probably the exact same as you early on. I mean, we had bills to pay. I think we’ve got some school bills left over as well, so it was probably money-oriented. And then maybe a little bit of reputation or personal brand, and making sure that I was sort of proving myself, in a way. Those were probably the goals that I had at the time.
Jodi Katz	I admire that that was one of them, because I had really no game. And I also, I think, was so self-centered in my early twenties that I thought this whole personal brand thing or reputation wasn’t—it was not on my radar. So I’m really glad it was on yours, because I think it’s important, right? You want to be a value-driven person in your workplace, and it’s never too early to think about that. So how would you define success now?
Echo Sandburg	Yeah. I think that over 20 years of diverse, different kinds of experiences, I would say that overall, my goal would be really to have an impact. And impact in different ways, whether it’s within my team on the business that I’m working on. And I know kind of from a broader perspective, an impact on the world or skin health. We talk about EltaMD trying to prevent skin cancer. So, what can I do professionally that can help take a step towards that, would be my goal.
Jodi Katz	I love that. And in my business, I’m trying to kind of rewrite the notion that to be successful—well, no. I guess the equation typically in agencies would be, you can’t lead with kindness and respect and still make great work, right? So every day, I feel like that’s my personal mission on a secondary level to the business, is proving that you can run a business with kindness and respect and still create great results. But there’s a lot out there, a lot of evidence out there of companies doing the opposite. So, it’s I guess a fun journey to be on, because I’m very driven about it.
Echo Sandburg	Yeah. No, I love that. And I hope, like you, that you can make an impact and help to change that, because it’s so unfortunate. Because I think it’s not only about the results, but it’s how you get the results and the impact that you have with people along the way. And I’m right there with you. I do see signs that it’s definitely changed if you look back across the career, especially as being a female leader. But yeah, I’m hopeful that organizations can really understand that there’s not one type of leader, and kindness isn’t weakness. And there’s more than one way to do that. And I think having higher EQ is even more important going into the future.
Jodi Katz	Well, I want to wrap up this interview portion. This has been so incredible, Echo. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.
Echo Sandburg	Absolutely. Thank you for having me. And I’m so glad that we were able to do this, especially as you’re focused on Health this month.
Jodi Katz	And for those of you who joined us mid-show, welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty. Today I’m joined by Echo Sandburg.
Echo Sandburg	Hi, guys.
Jodi Katz	She is the chief brand officer of CP Skin Health. And you can listen to the full episode on our feed after the show if you missed anything. So now we’re gonna move into our Instagram Live exclusive content. And before we do, I just want to say hi to some more people who joined. So, hi Evelina, and Phil, and Karen, and Elaine. Thank you so much for joining us.
Echo Sandburg	Hi, guys.
Jodi Katz	Hi, everybody. Okay, so we have a game for you, Echo. And we’re gonna also answer some fan questions.
Echo Sandburg	Okay.
Jodi Katz	So, as a reminder, everybody, if you have questions for Echo, please drop them in the comments, and we’ll get to them at the end of the show. Okay, Echo. So, you have so much knowledge about peels, sunscreen, skincare in general. So today, we’re gonna play a game called 2 Truths and a Lie. I’m gonna give you three statements, and you’re gonna identify which one is the lie among the facts.
Echo Sandburg	Okay. This is gonna make me nervous.
Jodi Katz	I think you’re gonna do good, do well. Are you ready?
Echo Sandburg	I’m ready.
Jodi Katz	Okay. We have four different segments, four different 2 Truths and a Lies.
Echo Sandburg	Okay.
Jodi Katz	Okay. So, number one. Statement number one: You can get sunburn on a cloudy day. Statement number two: Any type of clothing will block the sun’s rays. Statement number three: You should wear sunscreen daily.
Echo Sandburg	Okay.
Jodi Katz	Which is the lie?
Echo Sandburg	The lie is that any type of clothing can block UV rays, because you should definitely wear sunscreen every single day, even when it’s cloudy.
Jodi Katz	So, what makes a clothing item able to block the sun’s rays?
Echo Sandburg	So, I’m gonna say this wrong. You have to have UPF, that protection within that. And there’s different levels within the clothing. And so, we try to talk about being sun safe overall. Obviously, we’re focused on sunscreen. But there’s many different ways, whether you’re using the protective clothing, you’re in shade, you’re avoiding midday sun, hat, glasses, all the things, your skin will thank you for that.
Jodi Katz	Our skin will thank us for that for skin cancer prevention, but also dark spots. I have to say, I was away this summer. We went on an Alaska cruise. And for whatever reason, I did not pack a hat. And I know it sounds kind of crazy for me not to pack a hat. But in my head, I’m like, “I don’t know. It’ll be cold. I’ll wear my sunglasses.” And I wore sunscreen, of course, diligently. But I came home with so much brown spotty stuff everywhere that I’m still trying to resolve. And that’s with wearing sunscreen. So we have to wear the sunscreen, but we have to do the other jobs too.
Echo Sandburg	Absolutely. And whenever you’re in a situation—that’s why try to keep in your car or your bag different items with you. Because I know the feeling when you don’t, because I always wear a hat too being outside. And then you’re like, “Wait a second. Have I reapplied?” Just that extra exposure. So, it’s important.
Jodi Katz	Why didn’t I just buy an Alaska baseball cap? What was wrong with me on this trip to not just like, do it? But something was in my brain that was blocking me. And I really regret it, because I saw an impact on my skin.
Echo Sandburg	Yeah. I probably would have, and then my family would give me a hard time, because I have way too many hats, but.
Jodi Katz	Okay. Question number two. Statement one: People with sensitive skin should not get a peel. Statement two: You should wear sunscreen after a peel. And third one is: The peel solution induces a controlled injury to the skin. Which of these is a lie?
Echo Sandburg	Okay. Say it again. So, tell me again. One is?
Jodi Katz	Yeah. People with sensitive skin should not get a peel.
Echo Sandburg	Okay.
Jodi Katz	Second one is, you should wear—
Echo Sandburg	That’s a lie. Sorry. That’s a lie.
Jodi Katz	Okay. You got it. Tell me why. Why, why, why?
Echo Sandburg	Everyone should get a peel. PCA is our company, that’s our brand that’s known for peels, and there’s so many different great options for you. So we have one, it’s actually called Sensi Peel, which is great for people with sensitive skin. We have another called NoPeel Peel that’s great for sensitive skin. And it depends on what your skin issue is. So you can work with your esthetician. They can customize the treatment for you based off of your needs. But you work your way into it. And you can have a really great peel experience, and it doesn’t have to be scary, even if you have sensitive skin.
Jodi Katz	You said it’s called the NoPeel Peel?
Echo Sandburg	NoPeel Peel is one of my favorites. And you’re asking me these questions, something where it’s like, the positive, the negative. You have to think about it again. But I think people can be scared of getting peels if you’ve never done it. And that’s what I encourage people, because that benefit, that change to your skin is important. So really, every 30 days. That’s my goal. I moved this summer. I’ve had a lot going. So I haven’t kept up on it. But next week when I’m going on holiday for Thanksgi…
Jodi Katz	Echo, I just lost audio for you. Can you hear me? Oh, hi. I just lost audio for you. Can you hear me?
Echo Sandburg	I can hear you now.
Jodi Katz	Okay, great. Okay. So, and definitely put that sunscreen on after a peel. That’s essential.
Echo Sandburg	100%. Yes.
Jodi Katz	Okay. Number three. One out of five people will develop skin cancer before the age of 70. You need sun exposure to get Vitamin D. Having five or more sunburns in your life doubles your chance of getting melanoma. Which is the lie?
Echo Sandburg	The sun exposure and Vitamin D. And a lot of people are afraid to wear sunscreen because they’re afraid that they’re not gonna be able to get enough Vitamin D overall.
Jodi Katz	Where did this come from?
Echo Sandburg	I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s a great question. And so many people can or are Vitamin D-deficient. But it’s one of those things that I think there’s enough reasons why people will think about not protecting theirself and their skin, but that doesn’t need to be one of your concerns overall.
Jodi Katz	Okay, last one. Only sun exposure causes skin cancer. The younger you’re exposed to the sun, the higher your risk for skin cancer later in life. And the third one is, people of all skin tones needs SPF. Which one is the lie?
Echo Sandburg	Okay. Everyone of all skin tones needs SPF. And yes, and this is what I tell my kids. I’m so annoying about the importance of protecting your skin while young. So it’s number one, there are different ways to get skin cancer overall. And it’s not just the sun.
Jodi Katz	Well, you did it! Two Truths and a Lie. If I had my bell, I’d ring my bell right now.
Echo Sandburg	Yay! Yeah.
Jodi Katz	That was so fun.
Echo Sandburg	Yeah, like I said, you have to really think about it for a second.
Jodi Katz	I know. I wish I had cue cards up for you so you could read it yourself. Well, that was super fun. Thank you for sharing your responses and the reasons behind them, because that’s super educational for our listeners.
Echo Sandburg	That was fun.
Jodi Katz	Okay. Last segment is fan questions. So, sometimes people get a little personal. So we’ll see how you want to answer these. Okay. Here’s a good one What is your number one skincare tip for beginners?
Echo Sandburg	Number one tip is walk your way into it. So, I would say you need a cleanser, a moisturizer, and a sunscreen. Get started with that, and washing your face and protecting your skin. And sometimes you may not even need a moisturizer, depending on your skin type. We have a lot of great hydrating moisturizing sunscreens. But get started. It’s important. You need to cleanse and protect your skin. That’s how I would start. And then build from there, because there’s so many great opportunities. When you come to PCA, there’s a ton of advanced correctives and correctives, and they can do wonders for your skin. So definitely, you can add more in, but that’s the way I would recommend to get started.
Jodi Katz	In your research in skincare, is there an earlier age that people are starting to get more serious or invested in skincare, and what is that age range?
Echo Sandburg	Yeah. I mean, what we’ve seen is that kind of mid-twenties, early twenties, where you’ve gone to university, or you’ve gone to get your first job, and you start to have money of your own, that’s where people start to learn more, or you’re out of your house, and you’re like, “Maybe I don’t want to do what my parents did,” or I might be researching or thinking about things on my own. So, that is typically what we’ve seen from an age perspective. And that one’s usually skincare. It’s exciting to see the sun care side of things, that importance starting younger, which I wish I knew that way back when. And then I think other milestones or moments in your life where you’re thinking about your wedding, or your forties, or whatever it might be, you might be making other changes. But yeah, what we’ve seen is that earlier on is where a lot of people are starting to change and think about skincare differently.
Jodi Katz	Okay. Question number two. Oh, this is a cool one. Which emerging technology are you most excited about, whether it’s product innovation or marketing innovation?
Echo Sandburg	Gosh, that’s a hard question. There are so many exciting things. You know me, I like new things. I think that in AI, there can be some really cool opportunities. I mean, we’re experimenting in the space of how can you make virtual experiences better and give professional partners all the tools to do the best that they can do, even if they’re not there with you in person. So I think that there are some cool tools that could help augment the virtual experience. Because I don’t think we’re all virtual or digital like we may have been during COVID time that will be that hybrid, but there’s still times when you want to be able to offer that. So I think in the world of AI, there are some really cool things that are happening, and places we’re experimenting as a business as well.
Jodi Katz	I’ve noticed that the telehealth world is very hot M&A-wise and investment-wise, and this is not going away, right?
Echo Sandburg	Mm-mm.
Jodi Katz	Like you said, maybe it’s supplemental, or maybe there are certain hats where it always makes sense. But that’s exciting, that you’re playing in that space.
Echo Sandburg	Yeah. I mean, in the professional skin health, in skin space, I mean, there’s a lot going on right now. People care more and more about their skin health—not how it looks, but how it looks as a reflection of your skin health, and even over makeup, right? So, it’s a busy place, exciting place right now.
Jodi Katz	Okay, I think we have time for one more. Oh, this is a good one. Is there a specific level of SPF that is most recommended? This is very confusing, right? This whole number system. How do you help this person in this question?
Echo Sandburg	Okay. So before I was in the know, I was definitely one of those people—first of all, I thought makeup was giving me enough coverage on a regular basis with the SPF. Then I would wear sunscreen if I was going to the beach. And I would try to get the highest possible, because I think you could get like 100 or 150, because I thought that was great. Didn’t always love the experience on my skin. And it might break me out, or it wasn’t great. But as I’ve become more in the know, when you talk to dermatologists, the general rule of thumb is that you want to have a broad spectrum sunscreen that’s going to be 30 SPF or greater. And so, when you look at the benefits, 30 is enough to give you that. You will get some incremental benefits as you go up, but that’s gonna be core. And that’s where our sunscreens are 30 and above, usually 30 to 50 range. That’s gonna make sure you’re well-covered. Key thing that’s hardest for everyone is to think about reapplication, too. It’s not just one and done, especially if you’re gonna be in a more exposed situation.
Jodi Katz	I have such a—I honestly think it’s unusual, but I kind of love my system. I have a different SPF for different things that I do in my day. And sometimes there’s literally three different products I’m using because of my activity level. Like if I’m going out for a power walk, I use something different than when I’m sitting at my desk. And then if I’m out on a hike, I have a different product in my bag. And I think this is probably pretty common, right, for people like me who value some protection, right? It’s not really the same product all day long every day. We have to mix and match.
Echo Sandburg	Well, you’re a sunscreen superstar, and we wish everyone was like you. And as you uncovered, there’s so many—the world of possibilities is amazing. I mean, you can feel like when you’re new, I remember coming in, and I was like, “Oh, this is a little overwhelming.” But you kind of just break it down and kind of think about your skin type and needs. There are so many solutions that are gonna fit exactly what you need, and it’s not the same, like you said, with your swimming versus what you’re gonna wear to work. And if you can find something that’s gonna work with you, gonna work with your skin, it will help you stick with it.
Jodi Katz	Yeah. When you find something that’s easy to use and you like using it, or even if you don’t like using it, if you feel neutral about using it, like if you don’t have feelings about using it, that’s okay too. It just means you’re gonna do it.
Echo Sandburg	Yeah, which is good.
Jodi Katz	Yeah. Which is why it’s a different product for me if I’m gonna go for fitness, because I’m just super fast, right? The super fastest application, versus when I’m sitting at my desk with a tinted product. This is so fun! I wish I had a bell in my office here.
Echo Sandburg	I know. You know that I’ve implemented the bell at our team as well. So we have bells all over our office. I can’t believe one of us doesn’t have the bell. I wanted to congratulate you too, so look what I brought, Jodi.
Jodi Katz	Aww.
Echo Sandburg	So, congratulations on your awesome book and all of your success that you’ve had.
Jodi Katz	Thank you. Well, when we’re ready for part two, our 200th to 400th episodes, we’ll be able to incorporate your wisdom into it. So, Echo, this was amazing. Thank you so much for joining us, and playing the games, and answering fan questions. I’m so grateful to spend this time with you.
Echo Sandburg	I had a blast. Thank you so much for having me.
Jodi Katz	And for our listeners, this concludes our third episode of our Health quarter, but we aren’t done yet. Join us on November 30th at 4:00 Eastern as we welcome Yanghee Paik—she’s the co-founder and CEO of Rael—to the show. And as always, make sure you’re following us on Instagram to stay up-to-date on upcoming lives and all the fun we have along the way. Thank you, everybody. Thanks for watching.
Echo Sandburg	Bye, guys.

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