Episode 95: Kimberly Soane, Executive Director of Artistry at Bobbi Brown

02.13.2019

Summary

Don’t have a clear career path? At a crossroads? Then take Kimberly Soane’s lead. The veteran makeup artist and Executive Director of Artistry at Bobbi Brown has a career she loves, and gets clear about what motivated her. She went from psych major to beauty counter manager, to traveling the world with legendary makeup artist Bobbi Brown.

Hear her full story in this episode.

Transcript

Announcer	Welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi Katz	Hey everybody, I'm excited to introduce Kim Soane. She is the Executive Director of Artistry for Bobbi Brown, and my neighbor.
Kimberly Soane	That's right.
Jodi Katz	Welcome to Where Brain Meet Beauty™.
Kimberly Soane	Hi, so thank you for having me.
Jodi Katz	I usually get to see you at the gym-
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	Or by the train.
Kimberly Soane	No makeup is on.
Jodi Katz	Wait, at the gym we all look a little busted. It's okay.
Kimberly Soane	It's so true. And then people see you at the grocery store afterwards and they're like, "Oh, that's a good before and after."
Jodi Katz	We all clean up really well.
Kimberly Soane	Right?
Jodi Katz	The hair, the lip gloss.
Kimberly Soane	Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jodi Katz	How are you going to spend your day today?
Kimberly Soane	I was, at 6:00a.m., did our bootcamp, and then caught the train into the city, was in a meeting for like 9:30 talking about holiday and how to drive sales for holiday. Then was finishing artistry notes because part of my job as Executive Director for Artistry is to make sure that all the artists at the counters in the US are getting some sort of direction, or at least an inspirational tip or makeup hack, and we're driving a whole service program. So I was finishing that up to present to the field, and then came up here, which is so exciting because I get to leave the office. I Instagramed my whole way up here. Then this afternoon, more meetings, meeting with a retailer, Bloomingdale's, to talk to them about ... and we present spring now. So showing up with spring launches and then I will ... I don't have to race home, so that means I can catch a little bit of a later train.
Jodi Katz	That's cool. This sounds like the coolest job you can have if you're a makeup artist. How did get this job?
Kimberly Soane	I started in psychology, and I so wanted to help people. I always loved people, curious about people, and went through much ... sort of do college. I'm from Canada originally, so university. Then okay now it's Master's, and started a Master's program in Psychology, and I quickly realized I don't have the patience level to really help people, to go there. I remember sitting and talking to people and thinking, "Oh, just put a little blush on. You'll feel so pretty. You'll feel better." My sister was a model and she used to come home and show how to do makeup on herself, and I was so mesmerized by it. But I still was sort of brought up to think, oh I'm the brain one, not artistic. We weren't raised to think that the arts is a career option. Moreso it's like teacher, lawyer, doctor, something. So I went on and actually became a personal assistant to Hilary Weston, and the Weston family, in Canada, they own Holt Renfrew in Canada, they own Selfridges and Fortnum & Mason, and Brown Thomas in Ireland. A big, huge fashion family. Mrs. Weston used to have a makeup artist come to the house and do her makeup. I was like, "What? That's a job?" From there, I fell in love with makeup, and all my friends in their mid-20s were getting married. I literally, I did my sister's wedding as the first go at doing makeup, and to this day is thankful ... she actually got divorced and ripped up those pictures because the makeup is so bad-
Jodi Katz	Is it really so bad?
Kimberly Soane	It's so bad. We all wore iced blue puffy dresses, and then so I did ice blue eyeshadow and then white frost because I'd read like lighten up the brow bones, and all you can see in these photos are these white eyebrows. We look like raccoons. So my sister is actually getting remarried next year, so I've been hired on.
Jodi Katz	Oh, good.
Kimberly Soane	So hopefully it'll be better. From there I started doing everyone's makeup for weddings, and I just got better and better. I think it came naturally. I talk to so many people now and they go to makeup school, which I would never deter from, but I didn't have that route, I just started doing makeup for weddings. Then finally, I had actually become a buyer in cosmetics, and I had worked in retail, but in the office side. I was a buyer. I remember sitting in the meetings talking about the latest mascara launch, and I would look around and think, "Why is no one wearing the mascara?" I found myself just constantly ... and I finally quit the office job-
Jodi Katz	Was this a buyer for one of their…
Kimberly Soane	Yep, Loblaws- Which is a grocery chain.
Jodi Katz	Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kimberly Soane	So I was the buyer-
Jodi Katz	What was it called?
Kimberly Soane	Loblaws.
Jodi Katz	Loblaws.
Kimberly Soane	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Does it still exist?
Kimberly Soane	It does. It's amazing. If you're ever in Canada, go to Loblaws. They're the most amazing grocery stores. Beautiful, amazing. I was the one who bought the Maybelline mascaras and the Loréal eyeshadows. I just was not happy sitting at a desk and planning numbers and budgets. I just quit, and I went and worked at a makeup counter. I started at Bobbi Brown Cosmetics makeup counter, and-
Jodi Katz	At what store?
Kimberly Soane	At Holt Renfrew, at Blure and Young, was the flagship store. I got eaten for lunch every day by these women and guys who could sell ice to an Eskimo. It would take me an hour and a half to do a makeup, and somebody might buy an eyeshadow. I was just not ... but I was determined and I loved it. I worked my way up, became the Counter Manager, and then became the Coordinator for the region, and helping drive events. At that time, they used to bring us down to New York for training from Toronto. Bobbi and the team in New York saw me and met me, and then they would see how I taught and trained. Three years later I got offered a job to come and train New York City, to move here. At the time I was madly in love with a boyfriend, and he said, "No, you've got to go because you can always come home." So I went, and I haven't left. That was 15 years ago. I was fortunate enough to work with Bobbi. She and I clicked, and I worked by her side and trained, and toured, and did global, and did all the photo shoots and 16 years of Fashion Weeks. Now I'm Executive Director of North America for Artistry.
Jodi Katz	This is so awesome. It's so cool that you started as having a path which you thought would be helping people in their own heads, and you shifted and you just got a job.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	Like you just got a job, right?
Kimberly Soane	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Were you this person who is super frustrated or impatient with like, "When am I going to find that next big thing? When am I going to be what I always dreamed of?" Were you somebody who was programmed that way?
Kimberly Soane	No. No, I've always, even now, I have days where I might not feel happy, and I think will just go and work in a store. For me, I have to just feel happy. It wasn't about the money, or the title, or achieving, or being Bobbi Brown. It was just a sense of waking up every day and feeling happy. That's what drives me, even until today.
Jodi Katz	So if you're having a low day you'll just go to a local counter-
Kimberly Soane	I'll go work at Saks, I'll go stop and work with the Bloomingdale's team for a few hours, I'll leave the office early, I'll do some Instagram Stories, I'll pull one of the girls in the office and show the before and after, because that's sort of my happy place. The real reason why I got into makeup was to help women feel better, or look better-
Jodi Katz	Right.
Kimberly Soane	And to me, now it comes so naturally. When I get frustrated about ... like I've sort of worked my way so back up that I'm in the office. But I do have days where I'm like, "I don't know what the strategy is going to be in 2025." For what? I'll go and be like, "Oh, we'll fix your eyebrows," and they'll fix someone's eyebrows.
Jodi Katz	So you were looking to be a therapist, but you actually are a therapist, right?
Kimberly Soane	Yeah, I am. It's interesting, even last ... while we're filming now, we're talking now, it's October, and we did the breast cancer awareness, and I'd helped a woman last week for Stage IV Cancer, mom with a young son, and did her makeup, and the before and after and how she felt, and showing her a few tips of what she could do, that's truly the why behind why I love makeup. I think lots of people in the beauty industry are in it for different reasons, and mine is the feel good, like the helping part of it.
Jodi Katz	Right, so this is the coolest job you could have a makeup artist, right, because you get to be in the store and talk to customers, and hear from their directly, but you get to drive forward the ideas and thinking of the brand, work with a brand that's really loved, have access to all these products. What's the hardest part about this now?
Kimberly Soane	The hardest part about the job, I think now because Bobbi has left, for me, it was getting over that. And I'm not even over that per se because I miss her so much, and it's now continuing to have the excitement and the wherewithal to keep moving forward, but also staying true to that place where I was raised in, Bobbi Brown herself. So I feel a huge sense of responsibility to make sure the authentism, if that's a word, about the brand stays true, but also continues to move forward with the trends in today's environment.
Jodi Katz	Right, so I get ... sometimes I feel like vomiting the newness in our industry, because there's so much and it makes me feel really anxious, and kind of miss the days where it was a little bit slower, right? There was always newness, but it wasn't like a churning factory-
Kimberly Soane	Constant.
Jodi Katz	How do you deal with that?
Kimberly Soane	A thought in my head, when I see newness, I automatically slot it into sort of categories. Is it in the skincare category? Is it in the foundation category? Concealers? Powders? Treatments? Serums? Masks? Within that, I really look at what's the ingredients because at the end of the day, a lot of it is the marketing, and how is it being spun, and the cuteness behind the story, or the emotional connection to the product. So I kind of will step back from that noise and be like, "What's really in it? Oh, there's Sodium Hyaluronate and Hyaluronic Acid? Okay. All right, well let's see will that actually really plump my skin." You know, I'm always looking for a lip plumper, and I read it and I'm like, "Oh, it's just extra Hyaluronic Acid, okay you don't need to buy it, or I don't need to show that product development." I find that, and knowing that, and if somebody doesn't know what the ingredients are, you can so easily look up ingredients and just compare what's on the label. It's almost like with food today. Look what's on the label and then see, "Does it really matter to me? Is it really something cool that’s going to make a difference?"
Jodi Katz	When you're at the counter and outright events talking directly with consumers, do you feel like the consumer is really, really knowledgeable, or are some of them still a little lost about, "I know what to do. I don't know the order of use." Is it like 50/50? What do you find in the people you interact with?
Kimberly Soane	It depends on where I am and what retailer I'm at. You get a full array. So more and more, all of the information and research is saying the consumer is much more knowledgeable and they have access to so much more information. I find what happens a lot is women will come to the counter, or girls will come to the counter, and they know what they've seen. They'll know what they want to try. But it's a big of a whole other ball game of whether or not it works for them, and whether or not if it works for them, would they in fact do it every day? Would they want to in fact, invest and buy a product that they would do, and use it and fall in love with it? That, I find, is a little bit of a different vibe. "Oh my gosh, I just saw this cool post on this awesome eyeliner, but I don't know if I'd do that every day," well let me show you how and that's where I find the how to videos, or having a real artist, a counter, that real touch, is what then makes somebody fall in love with it, or feel confident to buy it.
Jodi Katz	Right. So it's a different tactic in terms of managing the customer at that moment, right?
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	Like you're not introducing her to things because she's always been introduced. It's your really educating-
Kimberly Soane	Yeah, personalizing it for them.
Jodi Katz	Right. Is it possible that's just not right for them?
Kimberly Soane	Totally. So much so. One of our best selling foundations, it's a long wear, I'm wearing it today, it's long wear, it's oil-free, and it's full coverage. Is that right for everybody? No. But it's an amazing product, and so many women will come to the counter and they're like, "Oh, I just saw there was a new foundation out by the counter,” I'm like, "Yes, we can show it to you and try it, but I'd love to show you X. This one's more moisturizing. You're telling me you don't even wear foundation every day. Let's try something a little more sheer," and then that way you adjust it for them.
Jodi Katz	Right. I love the art of retail sales, and I don't have a ton of experience in it, but I worked at a brand that had 150 stores for a while, so I got to be in-store, skincare and fragrance. So this idea of really listening, but also knowing with you kind of being ready for all those next steps, it's so hard. When I think about all of the visual merchandising demands we put on the staff and all the marketing and event-related stuff we put on the staff, I think about, "Well actually they just need to really focus on this," the craft of understanding the product, understanding the customer, how to navigate them, how to make them feel comfortable and heard. We can't expect them to be hanging things from the ceiling because it's just too much.
Kimberly Soane	It is. It's so much. So much comes down like today, in today's environment, you can go into so many stores and pick anything off of the gondola, and look online and follow YouTubers. So if you are with somebody who's in store and they're also brand-specific, so they've been trained by that brand. You know that they've got the knowledge and that person's job really is to help personalize that brand for you. It truly is today about you, the customer, and what do you want versus me sort of forcing it all on you. That's where ... the artists that we have for instance in New York, they're the best of the best at ... it's like a customer care personalization and long term. I would say, "Don't be a great first date. I want you to be an awesome long term relationship with all your clients." Get to know them, follow up, build that knowledge. Like, "No, oh a certain product did just launch and that would be perfect for-" Or, "Oh, that might be perfect for her sister. She always talks about her daughter and how she was looking-" and that's how the in-store engagement really should happen.
Jodi Katz	Let's talk about women over 40.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	I am one of them, I am 43.
Kimberly Soane	You look amazing.
Jodi Katz	Thank you.
Kimberly Soane	Your skin is so good.
Jodi Katz	Thank you. I mean I-
Kimberly Soane	What do you-
Jodi Katz	I do take care of myself, but I do think a lot of it has to do with genes.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	My mother and grandmother have incredible looking skin, but I don't drink and I don't smoke, and I don't drug. And I do really sleep.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	And I-
Kimberly Soane	I often think about you when I'm going to have a glass of red wine, I'm like, "Jodi doesn't have a drink."
Jodi Katz	It sucks all the moisture out of my body, alcohol-
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	I just feel so dehydrated after it. I'd wake up at 2:00 and 4:00 in the morning just feeling like sandpaper everywhere.
Kimberly Soane	Right, it is, it's like empty calories, too.
Jodi Katz	Yeah, and so I think that that helps my skin, but I think so much of this is genetics. I can look at my grandmother in her 80s, her skin is so incredible.
Kimberly Soane	You're beautiful. Wow.
Jodi Katz	I'm grateful for my genes.
Kimberly Soane	And you take good care of your skin.
Jodi Katz	I do, but I don't put everything on it. I have serums on my counter. Do I use them? No. Do I use sunscreen? Yes.
Kimberly Soane	Right. Yeah.
Jodi Katz	You know, I'm a moisturizer sunscreen girl.
Kimberly Soane	I find whenever I compliment and you start talking to them, it's sunscreen. Sunscreen, sunscreen, sunscreen.
Jodi Katz	Well that sun is really tough and damaging.
Kimberly Soane	Every day, use of sunscreen -
Jodi Katz	Well my every day use of it has been new. That's like a new thing this year. I would be somebody who, in my heart, would want to wear sunscreen every day, but I just didn't know how.
Kimberly Soane	Right.
Jodi Katz	But I am really grateful that I found the right product for me now-
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	But I definitely have sun spots on the side of my face because I think driving the car, David would usually drive and I sit in the passenger seat when we go out for long drives or whatever as a family, and I have all that sun on me. This is everywhere where the sun spots are for the most part. They're probably on this side.
Kimberly Soane	That's how we met, because you were testing that sunscreen.
Jodi Katz	Oh that's right, yes. Yes. In our bootcamp.
Kimberly Soane	And it didn't sweat.
Jodi Katz	And it's an Ulta MD product, UV Clear, so you can put it on and it blends right in, like you don't have white stuff all over you, and then we are all different skin tones, and we all tested it and we weren't sweating white, dripping stuff all over us. It's really phenomenal.
Kimberly Soane	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	That was a fun way to meet you, at the gym. Okay, but let's talk about women over 40.
Kimberly Soane	Over 40.
Jodi Katz	You actually have a specialty in working with women over 40.
Kimberly Soane	Yes, I do.
Jodi Katz	What does that mean?
Kimberly Soane	It means that when you're over 40, a lot of times your lifestyle is different than, at least it is for me, when I was in my early 20s or even when I was in my 30s. Lifestyle plays a big role on what does beauty mean to you, and I think keeping it simple, knowing the awesome basics, and nailing the basics, is the best tool to have. From that base point, then you can play and do a flick eyeliner. You can try a fun, crazy lip color. You can go for a glittery eyeshadow. But knowing how to make your skin, your features, your eyes, your brows, everything look its best, that is, to me, the goal of being in 40+ and what amazing beauty is. That is what I constantly am trying to show women, and I find so many women I've met, when they're over 40, late 30s into their 50s, a lot of women are like, "Oh, I've given up," or "I used to do that, I don't do it anymore." To show a bit of the humor, a bit of the achievable simplicity on beauty, can reignite ... I found a lot of women to be like, "Oh, actually let me try that," and to be almost that spokesperson for them to be like, "Hey, oh my gosh, your eyes with three coats of mascara, do you know how gorgeous your brown eyes are?" They're like, "Oh, I gave up doing mascara. I found it too hard. I need glasses now." I'm like, "Oh my gosh. Here's a magnifying mirror. Let's put on two or three coats." And that simple approach of embracing your unique beauty, that's what motivates me to really help women 40+.
Jodi Katz	So this is a topic we talk a lot about-
Kimberly Soane	Okay.
Jodi Katz	At my agency, my day job, because many of us are 40+.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	We are also people who study consumer behaviors, right? So we talk about our own consumer behaviors. I do think that I'm shopping the industry differently than I did in my 30s and 20s, with brand new eyes, because my style has changed. My kids aren't teeny tiny anymore, I have more time, I can focus on me. It means that I am like, for the first time in years, thinking about finding things to do with my hair. Maybe I want to curl my hair, maybe I want to straighten it. I haven't done stuff like this ... I mean, was walking around with spit up on my shirt for like seven years. To come out of that fog and I'm a brand new customer. My loyalty is to things in my 20s, I don't have them anymore, so I am right before communications-
Kimberly Soane	Messaging products.
Jodi Katz	Yes. And I think that -
Kimberly Soane	Is there anybody out there that you think is reaching you, or you've noticed out of, like our point, there's so much?
Jodi Katz	I think that brands can do a much better job at really thinking about the opportunities with a customer who is looking at the category of new eyes, not just the eyes of a 20 year old, or a 17 year old, but-
Kimberly Soane	A millennial.
Jodi Katz	Right, but the eyes of someone who actually wants to reinvest in themselves, and that's sort of what I think I'm going through. Honestly, I hardly ever wear mascara, but now I'm starting to wear mascara.
Kimberly Soane	Right.
Jodi Katz	I'm experimenting with lipstick. I'm experimenting with different skincare products. I am excited about it. I am as invigorated now, as I was then. I'm just doing new things, and of course, I shop differently now.
Kimberly Soane	Right.
Jodi Katz	I've probably bought stuff at the drugstore exclusively-
Kimberly Soane	Right. Yeah.
Jodi Katz	In my younger years. Now, thankfully, I get a lot of things for free, but I'm still a consumer of many other parts of the business.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	So I think that there is a huge opportunity. I love that you're focusing on this and that you did this in your own feeds right? @BeautybySoane.
Kimberly Soane	I did. @BeautybySoane. You know, it's amazing because to your point, in an every day world, step out of New York City, step out of being in the beauty industry here at Broadway and 21st, which is one of the most amazing intersections in New York City, step away from all of that and women all are beautiful and unique, and they might not know what's the best mascara, or just to take care of their skin and exfoliate, and apply a serum and a moisturizer every day, is like a new step. To feel that sense of worth and inner beauty. I think so much of today is focused on these beautiful models that I've done makeup on, and I look at them and they are like gazelles with not a flaw on them, and they're 24. So yes, that's beautiful, but there's so much out there that is beautiful. So many more women out there, and all those women have that sense that you probably feel, or I feel. I'm like, "Yes I'm 48, but-"
Jodi Katz	You're 48?
Kimberly Soane	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Oh my goodness.
Kimberly Soane	Oh yeah, I'm like, "But I still want a groomed brow."
Jodi Katz	You're a good spokes lady for the 40s.
Kimberly Soane	Oh thank you.
Jodi Katz	Oh my goodness, yeah.
Kimberly Soane	It's like I want a groomed brow. It doesn't mean I'm going to get all bushy on my brow, right?
Jodi Katz	I think that what I've realized living in our community where we live, because there are so many really fascinating people who are very willing to talk, and when I tell them that I work in this industry and they're not from beauty, they're not in marketing, they say, "Well, what do I buy? I don't even know what to buy," or they say, "My friend sells beauty counter. My friend sells Rodan + Fields, so I just use that." So what I've realized, when I take myself out of our business, is that in our industry, I think we're talking to ourselves a lot.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	I'm talking to you, you're talking to me, but we're not talking to her. All of this stuff about illuminators, and piling on layers and layers of product-
Kimberly Soane	Highlighter, yeah.
Jodi Katz	This is such a small group of people who do this, and I’m interested in this, and most of the women just really tell me what to do.
Kimberly Soane	Right.
Jodi Katz	I'll do it, just tell me what to do, and they want it to be easy, and that's why those protocols of the social selling is so wonderful it's their friend telling them what to wear.
Kimberly Soane	Right, right.
Jodi Katz	Right? Right, and they could just text them like, "I need more."
Kimberly Soane	Yep.
Jodi Katz	So there's something, I think, very appealing about those business models for people our age because I don't want to be bothered. I don't want to run to a story. I don't even want to watch a YouTube video. Just tell me what to do.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	And I'm doing it while I'm sipping wine and eating cheese in your living room.
Kimberly Soane	Right, and that's so true. Traveling for work, whatever. So true.
Jodi Katz	Right. So I think that ... I don't know if it's a brand that's doing this, well I just think that that's a real opportunity, right? And so I think human to human contact, just tell me what to do, I will do it, and they will be loyalists, right?
Kimberly Soane	And it's interesting, on my YouTube videos, I don't edit them. I make mistakes. Everyone's like, "Oh, you've got rid of the mistakes. It has to be a flawless, seamless-" I'm like, "Really? Really?" There is always a child, or a dog, or somebody in the background, I still make it look attractive but achievable. Because to your point, I'm sorry, there is nobody in the world that can do a perfect winged eyeliner without making a few edits to it. If you don't show those edits, then how is somebody who doesn't even know what's the difference between an ink liner, a gel liner, an eyeliner pencil, they just want to know how do an eyeliner.
Jodi Katz	Right.
Kimberly Soane	So my little videos are how to apply an eyeliner. There's no edits, but you know, it's five minutes, and you've got to practice. It's like riding a bike, but it's a little bit more of an achievable, fun approach versus this sort of unattainable, edited, filtered version.
Jodi Katz	I appreciate that. I actually see a correlation. I was doing math homework with my son last night and we were learning long division and he didn't get it, so we went on a YouTube video-
Kimberly Soane	Oh, that was smart.
Jodi Katz	The person in the video made a mistake, and I think it's so good that my son saw that the person said, "Oh, no let me cross that out. That's wrong," right?
Kimberly Soane	Right.
Jodi Katz	So it gives him the confidence like, "Oh, I can do it at some point like he's doing it. I'll understand it at some point, and I'll make mistakes and that's okay."
Kimberly Soane	That's so good.
Jodi Katz	And I think that what you're saying is the same-
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	I actually wouldn't approach a big eyeliner myself because I know it'd take me 15 minutes and I'd be sweating because I'd be frustrated, which sort of reminds me, have you ever put those stick on brows on?
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	I'm like, they never stick in the right place, and you're like running late to go the party, and then you're sweating which makes them not stick.
Kimberly Soane	That's so funny.
Jodi Katz	That's what I would be like if I wanted to attempt a big look with eyeliner. Or get one side off, so I'm in the other side of the circle.
Kimberly Soane	And it's so funny because then I show the techniques, because to your point, doing ... I think, am I the best makeup artist in the whole world? No, absolutely not. Over the years too, I've picked up little tips and tricks of like how to almost fake it. One of the things I teach is how do I ... I actually did it today, because I do so much of my makeup on the train, is I smudge the eyeliner with an eyeshadow, and then it makes it look like, "Oh, sexy, sultry, smudgy line," but that's from over the years of ... I'm sorry, trying to make two winged eyeliners both perfect is so hard, for me, even to do on a model when his eyes are imperfect. Your eyes aren't even the same. No one even has the same shaped or size eyes.
Jodi Katz	Right, they are sisters, not twins.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	Same with your eyebrows.
Kimberly Soane	Yes. Yes. So that's why models, when you look at them face on, their features are so symbiotic, and that's what sort of what looks beautiful. But most of the women, I'm sorry, I sleep on the side of my face, and this whole left side of my face is a little more squished up.
Jodi Katz	Is it really?
Kimberly Soane	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Do you think it's from sleeping?
Kimberly Soane	I do. I have a friend in the beauty industry and she's almost 60, which she'd kill if I told everyone, she slept on her back in one of those neck pillows and her features are flawless and she says one of the reasons is because she slept on her back.
Jodi Katz	Oh, I'm a belly sleeper, so I can't-
Kimberly Soane	Yeah. I'm like, yeah, let the other eye be squished.
Jodi Katz	I've seen you do your makeup on the train-
Kimberly Soane	Oh yeah.
Jodi Katz	And it is very fast.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	You are really speedy. Like you go in with a naked face, right?
Kimberly Soane	Naked face, because usually it's I'm sweaty, running, getting everyone to school, da-da-da, the dog. I'm just trying to make the train all in one piece, let alone trying to get makeup on before is silly. Yeah, so doing makeup, again, for anybody, if you have the right foundation, the right concealer, a good mascara, whatever you need to put ... some of the basics, which is four or five products, anything else over and above that is a jewel. It's sort of like knowing what your perfect black dress is with the right shoes, and then if you throw in a fancy necklace, okay great, but if can get that black dress on then you're good to go.
Jodi Katz	So is this bag very heavy with product, or is it very limiting?
Kimberly Soane	It's actually quite small. I have it.
Jodi Katz	Oh, your bag is very heavy today.
Kimberly Soane	My bag is ... it's so funny, I was thinking if they asking ... well I brought some lipsticks to give to the girls, and I've got cereal for my son-
Jodi Katz	You have a giant water.
Kimberly Soane	And two waters. This is my bag here.
Jodi Katz	Oh it is tiny.
Kimberly Soane	Yeah. I've got mascara, and a brush, concealer, highlighter. These are the best eyedrops in the whole world. Lumify- they’re the best.
Jodi Katz	Cool.
Kimberly Soane	Then a lot of my stuff I do, it's without a brush.
Jodi Katz	Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kimberly Soane	This is a long wear eyeshadow stick. I usually have one brush for all the face powder, bronzer, concealer without a brush, lipstick. I use lipstick as blush and lips and that's it.
Jodi Katz	And your eyes are insanely popping. They're beautiful.
Kimberly Soane	And that's just a black eyeliner and a green eyeliner smudged together.
Jodi Katz	Are you doing this with a mirror or with your phone? Are you looking in your phone or using a mirror?
Kimberly Soane	Both, depending if I think an Instagram follower would be like, "Oh, that's a cool technique," I'll do it while I'm on the phone. If not, I always have one compact on me.
Jodi Katz	Right, because I find that with my eyesight now, looking in the phone, it's like I don't really see enough.
Kimberly Soane	Sometimes I think that's okay. "Oh it looks, it's fine," because I'll never forget working with women in general, years and years, so many women, they microscope themselves.
Jodi Katz	Right.
Kimberly Soane	And they get right up and it's amazing how hard and critical women are in general on themselves. I too am like that on many things. I would take a woman, her hand is right up close, nose distance away from their face, and I'll push their hands straight, hold the mirror and that's what the woman sees. If it looks good from there, guess what? It's great. That's, I think, my approach to the beauty. From there, it looks good. Great. There's so much more to life than getting a perfect eyeliner all the time.
Jodi Katz	Right, I love that sentiment because I struggle with this as well. Maybe even more with body image than with makeup. When my head goes down that dark hole, I tell myself the world sees me the way I see myself without wearing contacts. I have really bad vision. The blurry version of myself, I'm like, "I love that."
Kimberly Soane	And that's what people see.
Jodi Katz	Right, so I should love it too.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	I should love me as me.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	That's what I tell myself.
Kimberly Soane	Yeah, that's really ... that's the truth of it. If we could all do that all the time, I would feel much more confident all the time and probably be even happier more of the time.
Jodi Katz	Right. So we have to look at our face a whole arm distance away.
Kimberly Soane	Yes.
Jodi Katz	And look at our bodies with blurry vision.
Kimberly Soane	Yes, and if not, put some Vaseline or gloss on top of the camera then look at it.
Jodi Katz	Right.
Kimberly Soane	Put on a filter.
Jodi Katz	Right, well the whole world sees us filtered actually. We see ourselves in a different way.
Kimberly Soane	It's so true. It's about the whole thing of perception.
Jodi Katz	Yes.
Kimberly Soane	Right, how we perceive one's self or things, that's a reality.
Jodi Katz	Right.
Kimberly Soane	Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Well thank you so much for wisdom today, Kim.
Kimberly Soane	Thank you.
Jodi Katz	I'm so glad you came in.
Kimberly Soane	Thank you so much. This was great. It flew by.
Jodi Katz	Yeah, it goes fast.
Kimberly Soane	I know, it does.
Jodi Katz	And for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Kim. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes and for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.
Announcer	Thanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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