Episode 122: Dr. Gregory Brown, Founder of RéVive Skincare

09.25.2019

Summary

Any entrepreneur will tell you that your brand is your baby. So when you go to sell it, whether willingly and lucratively or not so much, you’re losing a bit of your soul.

Our guest, Dr. Gregory Brown, Founder of RéVive Skincare, has lived through this more than most, as his company was bounced around from owner to owner. Along the way, he faced personal challenges that would have flattened most of us, including getting sober and living an authentic, open life.

Listen to our full conversation, inspiring for every entrepreneur…and everyone else!

Transcript

Jodi Katz	I am so excited today to be sitting across from Dr. Gregory Brown. He is the founder of RéVive Skincare. Welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Thank you for having me.
Jodi Katz	I am very excited because this marks a very special moment for our show. We're recording in our brand new podcast recording studio in our brand new office, and you're our very first guest in this new space.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Exciting. Thanks for having me.
Jodi Katz	Thanks for being patient while we work out the kinks.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Sure.
Jodi Katz	So, for our fans, we're sitting in a room just surrounded by acoustic paneling and sitting at a table with hot pink microphones.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yes, love it.
Jodi Katz	So I'm excited to talk with you because, so many reasons but, one is that many, many years ago when I was a freelance copywriter I worked on RéVive.
Dr. Gregory Brown	That's what you said. That's amazing.
Jodi Katz	It was so long ago. I was almost a child. And I don't even remember who I worked with but it was a lot of copy for events. You must have been very active in your practice, throwing a lot of events to support the brand. And when Elana Szyfer took over as your CEO I was like, "Oh my God, that's so cool," because I know her and I knew the brand. So I'm so happy to have you as a guest.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Great. It's good to be here.
Jodi Katz	So I'd love to go back in time with you.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Okay.
Jodi Katz	There's been a lot of action in your brand recently, but I want to go back to the time when you thought, "I should be the founder of a skincare brand." So take us back.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Sure. Well, as you know, I'm a plastic surgeon by training and certainly never set out to have a skincare brand. It takes too long to be a plastic surgeon to begin with. But during my training I took a couple of years off and spent time with what was then the infancy of biotechnology in the Bay area, San Francisco, with a company called Chiron. They were all basic scientists. And they had just developed human proteins recombinantly and that was a whole new industry, the biotech industry. And some of those human proteins had never been available for research before and I was very interested. I had just finished spending time on the burn unit at Mass General where I trained in general surgery. And burns are devastating injuries and usually if somebody doesn't survive a burn, it's because the burn can't be skin grafted quickly enough and they get sepsis and succumb. So the thought was that if there was a way to decrease the time of exposure without skin grafts, that it could decrease mortality. So, these molecules were important for healing and actually since they were available in larger quantities, we started doing experiments on them, human experiments. And sure enough, long story short, we're able to show that we could make wounds heal faster. And that was a really important concept. It's used in burn wound therapy today to grow skin and tissue culture for difficult wounds. They're called growth factors. They're human, they occur in tiny quantities in the body and that's why very little experimentation had been done before the biotechnology industry came along. Then it was able to make large quantities. So what does that have to do with RéVive? That's a good question. It actually has a lot to do with it because the physiology is very similar. In order for those wounds to heal faster, increased cell renewal has to occur. And in order to stabilize or reverse the signs of aging, increased cell renewal has to occur because one of the things that happens as we age, the skin cycle, especially the epidermal cell cycle slows. When you're 20 years old, you completely replace your epidermis about every three weeks. From cell division, the cells divide on the bottom, they go to the surface and they're exfoliated. That's one cell cycle, it maybe takes three weeks. As you age, when you get to be my age, it may take six, eight, 10 weeks. And that's one of the reasons we get that dull, lackluster skin of aging. So I had the idea, could we stimulate the cell cycle in aging skin? So that was kind of... To use those molecules that were important for burn wound healing, could they also stabilize and reverse the signs of aging? I did a whole series of human studies. Volunteers. Long story short, we're able to show that and actually patented the concept of growth factors to reverse aging in skin. And then RéVive was slowly born out of that.
Jodi Katz	You were in private practice in Louisville, Kentucky?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yes.
Jodi Katz	In the '80s, is that right?
Dr. Gregory Brown	'80s. '90s, and early 2000s.
Jodi Katz	Why Kentucky?
Dr. Gregory Brown	It was my home. My parents were there. Only child. I trained elsewhere. I trained in Boston and Atlanta, but I went back there. So that was how I ended up there.
Jodi Katz	And at that time, what were your patients asking for? Were do these cosmetic solutions or-
Dr. Gregory Brown	In the early days I did a lot of reconstruction, but as my practice matured, more and more aesthetic and that sort of thing. And certainly aging is part of that.
Jodi Katz	And what did you learn about yourself when in Kentucky in the '80s and '90s as a plastic surgeon?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, Kentucky is very conservative and I had lived in more metropolitan areas. It was a little difficult to go back. But it was my hometown. It was easy to start a practice because I knew so many people, in that sense. But it was a different lifestyle.
Jodi Katz	Tell me about that.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, I was raised a Southern Baptist, which is a very conservative religion, and Kentucky is very conservative as I mentioned. I happened to be a gay adult male so that was difficult. And that was in the time of AIDS. There was no cure for AIDS at that time. So it was very, what I thought, maybe not, but I felt like patients would be scared to have a gay surgeon because he might be able to give them AIDS, which there was no cure for. It was a death sentence 100% of the time. So that was an added pressure. And that might've been true in New York or Atlanta. I had a job in Atlanta, I could have stayed there. But it seemed to be more, at least in my own mind, more pressure in Kentucky that way, personally.
Jodi Katz	So you lived a life that was not super authentic at that time?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yes, I did. I was engaged to women twice. Luckily for them and me, I never got married. But in those days, especially in the '80s, even today to some degree, but nothing like it was then, a lot of men in my situation lived an inauthentic life. Even our candidate for president who's gay, today, he talked about until he was in his 30s lived a not authentic life. Pete Buttigieg.
Jodi Katz	And what sort of emotional pressures did that put on you during that time?
Dr. Gregory Brown	A lot. Because when you're not living an authentic life for who you are, there's all kinds of pressures because you're not being honest with the world or yourself. So dishonesty is a hard way to live. So yeah, it was a lot of pressure. Plus add to that, practicing medicine.
Jodi Katz	Right. So you would wake up every day and make conscious decisions to interact with female friends in a way that feels very familiar even if you're not feeling that way about them? You actually choreographed these moments for yourself?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, luckily I had some female friends that understood my situation and they were helpful to me that way.
Jodi Katz	So you were honest with them?
Dr. Gregory Brown	I was honest with them. Yeah. And so that helped. But it still was a lot of pressure. Because that was before social media and I certainly, I was in the era of physicians that did not advertise. So really the way to build a practice in those days was to go to social events, take part in community events and all of that sort of thing. So that was a big way to build your practice. And so yeah, that was just an added pressure.
Jodi Katz	Right. So you had to keep up appearances as a heterosexual man?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yes.
Jodi Katz	Were you able to actually have a personal life that was fulfilling at the time?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Minimal. Minimal. Not much, no. The older I got, the better that got but-
Jodi Katz	And your family, were you honest with them?
Dr. Gregory Brown	You know, like any good dysfunctional family, they knew, but we just didn't talk about it. As long as I didn't, as I lived like they wanted me to live, we didn't talk about it. And I was what I call King Baby. I was an only child, the first person to go to college, certainly to medical school, Harvard, all that stuff. So they all, they didn't want to go there.
Jodi Katz	Were there other people you could talk to like other physicians who you felt comfortable being honest with, who you could share this with?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Not really. No, no, it was pretty clandestine.
Jodi Katz	Yeah, it sounds really lonely.
Dr. Gregory Brown	It was, yeah. And so I worked all the time. Part of it I think, I sublimated a lot of those energies into, I had a busy, successful practice, [inaudible 00:10:00] quickly. So that was never quite enough. So then I started, long story short, RéVive. So I do think, it came out, I don't know if I could say positively, but I did sublimate a lot of those energies into other directions.
Jodi Katz	Mm-hmm. So I'm in our intake call you were incredibly honest and open with me about your life and as you're sharing now. And decades ago you couldn't be honest, right?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Correct.
Jodi Katz	And now you had told me what would the point of the interview be if you weren't completely honest, and I'm grateful for that. You talked to me about the pressures of running a business and how it led to addiction.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Right.
Jodi Katz	So I'd love to dive deep into this because this is a topic that a lot of people don't talk about. And it's as much a part of your life as anything else.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Right.
Jodi Katz	So tell me, where did the addiction begin?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, I am 15 years sober this month actually.
Jodi Katz	Congratulations. That's awesome.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Thanks. But I've learned over the years, at first I thought the addiction was because of what we just talked about, the pressures of that. I did develop rheumatoid arthritis so I did have a reason to... I was addicted to pain medication, not alcohol. I never really drank. So I had... There's a drug called Ultram that's supposedly not addictive for pain that I did get addicted to. But I think looking back these many years later, some people are just wired for it. I think I was one of those people. There is some heredity in my family of alcohol, my immediate family, no, but uncles, aunts and all of that that had addiction issues. So I'm not so sure. You know, there are a lot of people that go through the same pressures and never have an addiction problem. So as strange as this may seem, that may be one of the best things that ever happened to me. It was very difficult to go through at the time. But having come through it and been in recovery all these years, it's made me a much different person than I think I would've been. I was never, I was raised in a religion and I never did not, not believe in some sort of a creator, but it wasn't a big part of my life. And of course in sobriety, that's a huge part of your life, a spiritual... I mean the way I got sober is through a spiritual solution and so it's become a big part of my life.
Jodi Katz	And what did addiction look like for you? How was it part of your every day?
Dr. Gregory Brown	It started out slowly. I would maybe at the end of the day, instead of having a drink, I would have two pills. Then I decided... RéVive had grown because I was practicing and RéVive out of my office at the same time. So I realized even before the addiction kicked in that I couldn't do both. Medicine, at least for me, is too much of a commitment to be sidelined by anything else. So I made the conscious decision, because I had rheumatoid that I would retire from medicine and then do RéVive full time. But then the addiction really kicked in once I didn't have the responsibility of medicine. And maybe by the end, by the time I went to rehab, I was taking 20 pills a day.
Jodi Katz	Oh my goodness. And did your friends know?
Dr. Gregory Brown	No. That's the strange thing about a lot of addicts. Most people knew I had a personality change. One of the women that I worked with closely, she thought, "Oh my goodness, does he have AIDS? He's changed so much." My parents, I remember when I told him my parents that I had an addiction problem, my mother said, "Oh thank goodness. I thought you had AIDS." So, people knew that I was different, but nobody really, strangely enough, knew that I was taking 20 pills a day.
Jodi Katz	How interesting, right? That you could be so reliant on this medication and no one knew it.
Dr. Gregory Brown	But addiction is that way. It's the devil.
Jodi Katz	Right. So I think a lot of people probably think of addicts as people on the street, right?
Dr. Gregory Brown	No. There are a lot of people in your life today I'm sure that have some, a lot of people have a lot of addictions that aren't chemical, but even chemical addictions, yeah.
Jodi Katz	So how did you know when it was a real problem?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, I sort of knew. I mean I knew this, but you lie to yourself. And so one day I had to go actually to a business meeting in Dallas and I decided I wouldn't take pills. And I became suicidal.
Jodi Katz	In that one day?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yeah. And I didn't know... I mean I wasn't even sad. I just wanted to jump out a window. You know, it's insanity. It's total insanity. But I got a massage, I called my parents, I did everything and I still wanted to do it. So finally I called the house doctor at the hotel and I said, "I had a headache. Could he call me in some medicine?" And soon as that took the medicine, the suicidal tendency thoughts went away, and I knew that was a moment of clarity. I knew that I had a problem. So I came home and within a week I went to rehab.
Jodi Katz	So, is this unusual that somebody sees this for themselves. That it's not like friends or families sitting them down and saying, "Wow, there's a real problem here"?
Dr. Gregory Brown	I think ultimately, even when there's an intervention, the individual has to come to a point that they... Because a lot of interventions don't go well and don't end well. But I think the person that's addicted has to come to that. Yeah. To ever really get sober. I mean they talk about a bottom. My bottom wasn't, it was an emotional bottom more than it was... I didn't really lose a lot of things monetarily or any of that sort of thing. But I certainly was bankrupt from a spiritual standpoint, emotional standpoint.
Jodi Katz	So the suicidal feelings really freaked you out?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well that's really, yes it did. It got my attention and then I knew I had to deal with it.
Jodi Katz	And what was the process that week before you, when you came back from Dallas to leaving for rehab?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, I knew that I couldn't go to just a institutional cinder block wall rehab. So I actually went online, and I had read years ago about a place in Malibu called Promises, where a lot of, at that time, celebrities went. So I called them and they had a bed and I went. And it was great. It changed my life.
Jodi Katz	But you did this for yourself, which I just find so fascinating, right?
Dr. Gregory Brown	But I knew I had to.
Jodi Katz	Did you think that if you didn't you were going to die?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yeah, I was at a rock and a hard place. I couldn't take pills and I couldn't not take pills. So yeah, I knew that something had to give.
Jodi Katz	And I'm curious about that conversation with your family or with your friends when you told them you have a problem. Were they surprised?
Dr. Gregory Brown	They were very surprised. Yes. I had a partner at the time and he was very surprised. They all thought, they knew I was not quite myself, but they were blown away when I told them what it was.
Jodi Katz	And did anyone say to you, "No, no, no, you're fine"?
Dr. Gregory Brown	I think if it had been alcohol they might have. But when you say you take 20 pills a day, nobody can say that's fine.
Jodi Katz	Right. And you were able to access 20 pills a day because you're a physician?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yes. Yes. Those types of pills were not even schedule 2, they were schedule 3. So we used to just, when they first came out we would give them to patients just... Well, they always had a prescription but they weren't really like an opiate.
Jodi Katz	Right. So they weren't classified as super scary and dangerous pills?
Dr. Gregory Brown	No, no.
Jodi Katz	So access to them was way easier.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Right.
Jodi Katz	Wow. This is really fascinating because I think a lot of people don't realize that you can be completely functioning, right?
Dr. Gregory Brown	I was. Totally. Going through life. The people closest to me didn't know. Yeah, it's scary.
Jodi Katz	And what was the burden of that secret like?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, it was a living hell in a way. Because I'm a physician, I was intelligent enough to know this isn't normal and it can't go on forever. We talk about addiction as insanity and it is. When you hear what people do to feed their addiction it's obviously not sane.
Jodi Katz	And if you could give anyone advice who's a friend of someone who comes to them and says, "I have a problem," what would you tell them?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, I would be loving and nonjudgmental and tell them they don't have to live this way. They don't have to do it. There's a solution.
Jodi Katz	Congratulations on 15 years of sobriety.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Thanks.
Jodi Katz	That's really incredible.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Thank you.
Jodi Katz	I'm going to shift gears. Completely opposite direction.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Okay.
Jodi Katz	Let's talk about your business bouncing around from owner to owner.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Sure.
Jodi Katz	Maybe a little bit of insanity in that as well.
Dr. Gregory Brown	That's been an interesting path as well. But I was sober, and I got sober in '04 and really RéVive took off. Once I had stopped the medicine and went to rehab, then RéVive grew exponentially. Profitable. Big numbers. And people. If you remember in '07, early '08, it was a little bit like now, sort of a gilded age. People were coming out of the woodwork wanting to buy the brand. So ultimately I was talked into selling it. And for me-
Jodi Katz	Why do you say, "talked into"?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well it was my baby, it still is. I didn't want to sell it, really. Although it was more money than I ever thought I would have from practicing medicine, which is a good thing. But at the same time you sell a little bit of your soul. So, I had a wealthy older partner, a minor shareholder, and he's the person that made growth factors and that's why he was my partner. Because in those days you couldn't buy growth factors. He said, "We're going to have a recession and we should sell." I didn't believe it but long story short, we did end up selling in the spring of '08, just before the market crashed. And in retrospect, I might've lost the business during those, it was a bad time for at least two or three years. And the company that bought it, they really tried. But the company, RéVive, and the other company they bought with us never really did extremely well under that management. And so they sold it again to a bigger strategic, just about maybe two years, two and a half years ago now. And RéVive really suffered under that management. And then a private equity company came along and they wrote me and said, did they think it would be, could they buy it? And they talked to the strategic and so long story short, everything worked out. I put money in, they put money in. Our CEO did, our COO did. So 18 months ago we bought it back.
Jodi Katz	So let's talk about selling the baby through those years. So owner one and owner two. Did you have any role in the business during those time periods?
Dr. Gregory Brown	I did. I stayed on with product development. I always have done PAs, which are called personal appearances at our retail stores like Neiman Marcus and Saks. I've done those all along. I've done some press, but we were always overshadowed by bigger companies and the family of those owners.
Jodi Katz	So were you essentially an employee at that point?
Dr. Gregory Brown	I was a consultant. I was never an employee. But I had an office here in New York at one of the strategic's main office and that sort of thing.
Jodi Katz	But you didn't have a seat at the table?
Dr. Gregory Brown	No.
Jodi Katz	And what does that feel like? Because we hear about it every day, "Founder selling their brands. Brands-"
Dr. Gregory Brown	It's not fun. Now that I have more of a seat... I'm on the board of RéVive. So it makes a difference. It's hard to tell. I just talked to somebody that's thinking of selling their business over the weekend. And you can't really, it's like surgery, you can tell somebody what surgery is going to be like and what to expect, but until they do it, they can't know. And the same is a little bit true about selling your business. You can tell them, but until they do it, they can't know. So it's a difficult thing.
Jodi Katz	Before we started recording today we were talking about you don't have your name on the brand, right? So you didn't actually sell your name.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Correct.
Jodi Katz	But we see it all around us, right? People establish brands using their first and last name. Decades later they get into situations where they don't own their name anymore.
Dr. Gregory Brown	And that's a bad place to be. A lot of people get a lot of money for their name but once it's gone, it's gone. And you can't get it back.
Jodi Katz	It must be so painful on so many levels, right? Because we identify ourselves with the babies that we create, right? Our entrepreneurial endeavors are part of us and part of our soul, as is our name, right? Our name has value and meaning and we all work very hard to, how many of us have a good name and make it mean something. I think it just must be torture.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yeah I know several people that's happened to and yes, it's very difficult.
Jodi Katz	So you were a consultant to your own brand, the founder consultant to your own brand through two life cycles of different owners who weren't able to achieve the growth that you would have hoped. In addition to not growing, was there anything that actually really was devastating to the brand beyond the lack of growth?
Dr. Gregory Brown	The good news through both of those was that it was kind of ignored. And that may sound strange, but the reason that was good, our formulas weren't tampered with. Our distribution wasn't changed. So we kept our tight distribution with the luxury specialty retailers. All of our formulas we own. So those weren't, I hate the phrase, but dumbed down. So that turned out to be a good thing, especially now.
Jodi Katz	So it's almost like it was in a winter slumber?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yeah, a little bit of a hibernation. Yeah.
Jodi Katz	So maybe the headline for the summary of this episode is, "It's good when your brand's ignored it and when it's sold from buyer to buyer."
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well maybe, as ironic as that sounds and... Rich Gersten who is head of the private equity that we're involved with now, he always said that, "One of the biggest kudos for RéVive is the fact that it survived all that." And I think that's true. That says a lot about it, that it went through all of that and didn't go away.
Jodi Katz	So, after all these years, what is it like now to actually have a seat at the table again?
Dr. Gregory Brown	It's been exciting. It's been a great 18 months. We have a dynamic team. We have an amazing CEO, COO, [inaudible 00:26:35] very involved. We've seen it turn around in a short period of time. So I'm glad I weathered the storm. As you know, a lot of founders, when they sell, they just can't take it. And I get that. I totally get why they have to just step away, but for whatever reason I stayed. So I'm glad.
Jodi Katz	Yeah. And to be able to trust that the universe... Well I don't know, did you trust that the universe would take care of the brands when you sold?
Dr. Gregory Brown	I sort of did. I felt like... I'm really a glass half full person, especially since I'm in recovery now. And I've always just had this sense that there would be light at the end of the tunnel. So, and it was really a 10 year period. Yeah.
Jodi Katz	And having trust and faith in the unknown and the uncontrollable is close to impossible for most people. What can you extract from your recovery process that can help somebody through that?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, that's what recovery is, that you have to... I call it creator, I call it God. People call it other things, higher power, whatever, people. But you have to trust that we're not in control. When you think about it, in reality, as human beings, we don't have a lot of control over many things. We certainly can't control other people. We think we can. We try, but we can't. We can't control institutions. We think we can. We can't control the weather. So in reality you have to trust that there's some benevolent thing that's looking over everything and it will ultimately, maybe not in the short term, be what you want, but what you need and will turn out for the better. And so that really, that thought process has kept me in the game.
Jodi Katz	So what do you think, looking back now, the universe has given you as a gift other than the financial transaction of selling the business? What do you think that the universe has given you as a gift when you were not having a seat at the table and these brands maybe weren't being managed? What do you think you needed at that time?
Dr. Gregory Brown	Well, what I just said. I think I had that way of thinking about things. I thought that, well, I was treated well, I was respected. I didn't have a lot of power or say in what happened, but I was never, except by the last strategic, they were bad. And I won't say who it is. But the first big company, they really tried and they... And the last, the second strategic, they made it very obvious they didn't want the brand. They just had to take it because they bought it's sister brand. So from the get-go we knew that they really weren't going to do much for it. But again, they didn't hurt it other than neglect it. So that was a good thing.
Jodi Katz	So I just wonder if at that moment the universe gave you this ultimate test of like, well, you don't have control, and you actually don't... Well, we all know we don't have control over things. But here's a situation where you actually don't have control anymore. You're not the boss. You're not the owner. And to have to move through that is a gift, right?
Dr. Gregory Brown	It is. It's a lesson. And in the very early period of not owning the business, I was complaining and talking and, "They're not doing it right. They're not doing it the way I do it." So there was a woman that worked for us, I really like her a lot and she said, "Well quit." And I thought, "Well I don't want to quit." But what I did learn from that is that the only thing I can control is my reaction to the situation. So I changed my tune and ultimately the universe came back and this is where we are today. So I think the thing we do have control over are the people we surround ourselves with and our reaction to situations. So, those two things are really important. And I think if we do the next right thing, then the universe ultimately will reward us.
Jodi Katz	I try to teach my team to think about how important is this thing that you're dealing with, right? Most of the time it's not. Maybe it feels big, but if you put it into perspective, or how important is losing a client, how important is not getting the new client? How important is a client being unhappy with the photo shoot? In the end it's just not really important. And I think when we refocus our attention on what is important, the people we surround ourselves with as you mentioned, the joy we have in our work. Seeing the sunshine, being out in the sunshine, it really puts things into perspective and makes work way more fun.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Absolutely.
Jodi Katz	Which is my goal.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Yeah. Yeah yeah.
Jodi Katz	So, my last question for you, and now that you are back at RéVive and have partners who are investing time and money into it, what do you want to do with it? Where do you want to take it?
Dr. Gregory Brown	I want it to be a global brand. I want it to be... You know, RéVive is branded, but not really. A lot of people don't know the brand. So we are primarily domestic. We have very little penetration around the world so there's a huge opportunity for us to grow. And that's what I would like to see. Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Well, you'll be racking up your frequent flyer miles, right? For all those public appearances.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Right.
Jodi Katz	Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom-
Dr. Gregory Brown	Thanks for having me.
Jodi Katz	... and your story with me today and with our listeners. And for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Dr. Brown. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes. And for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast.
Dr. Gregory Brown	Thanks.

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