04.28.2021
Episode 181: Indie Lee, Founder and CEO of Indie Lee & Co.
Summary
There are many life lessons in the story of this week’s guest, Indie Lee. A terrifying medical diagnosis (and full recovery) motivated her to launch her truly green skincare line, Indie Lee, defined by clean ingredients and full transparency on what’s in, what’s not and where it all comes from. Tune in to hear how this beauty entrepreneur used one of the biggest challenges anyone can face to forge a new path and make her world—and everyone’s skin—healthier.
Transcript
| Announcer | Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty®, hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency. |
| Jodi Katz | Hey everybody, it's Jodi Katz, your host of Where Brains Meet Beauty podcast. This week's episode features Indie Lee. She's the founder and CEO of Indie Lee & Co. And if you missed last week's episode, it featured CMO of eos Products, Soyoung Kang. Thanks for tuning in. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. I am so excited to be here with Indie Lee. She's the founder of Indie Lee. Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty®. |
| Indie Lee | Thank you so much. I've been actually really looking forward to this a whole last week after we kind of briefly spoke, I think this is going to be so much. |
| Jodi Katz | I'm so excited. So I'm going to start with my favorite question, but then I'm going to go to like a thousand different places. We're going to have a very wide ranging conversation. |
| Indie Lee | Amazing. |
| Jodi Katz | So, you know that my favorite question to ask since we're a career journey podcast is to ask about your childhood goals. So when you were like 11, 12 years old, and someone asked you, what do you want to be when you grow up? What was your answer? |
| Indie Lee | A businessperson. I probably said businessman, just not realizing sadly that women could be business people, but I wanted to be in business. I remember, like I can go way back, like way back. My father had a printing corporation on Long Island and it was a family-owned business. And I can remember going into this corporation and thinking one day I could be running this. And I would go into the art department and into the print machines and it was amazing. And I have such a vivid memories of making my mom buy me a three piece suit. I think it was like knickers, but like burgundy pinstripe, like vivid memories. So I know I wanted to be a business person and I also really loved art. |
| Jodi Katz | That's so cool that you got to see a print shop in action. It's such a fascinating business. I know it's like kind of a messy business, right? The print shop floor it's really a manufacturing facility- |
| Indie Lee | Yes. |
| Jodi Katz | ... but it's so cool to have like that view as a kid that like, "Oh, this is how newspapers get made. This is how magazines get made." |
| Indie Lee | Yeah, it was amazing. I can remember going and watching magazines being cut on the huge bound folder cutter and the stitch machines and how plates would be made. And then I had my grandfather's old printing presses with literally the letter types. So, you know what, it's such fond memories, but what I remember is watching how business was being done and that always struck me. And I said, "This is what I want to do. I want to make things happen." And that's what I thought I was going to do. I thought I was going to take over the family business. |
| Jodi Katz | Did you ever work in the business? |
| Indie Lee | Well, yes. As a child, was it working or was it like my dad just had to bring me to work? But I did a little bit in more like intern, helping things like that when I was in high school, but when I went off to college, it was, "Yeah. I was going to go get a business degree, accounting degree and take over the family business." Unfortunately, my father did not embrace the digital tech world as fast as I wish he would have. I remember him saying, "Oh, computers are a fad." And that business was not around that much longer. And the good thing my mother always said make sure you have a degree. I had a degree in accounting and I went into accounting. |
| Jodi Katz | So if anyone's ever met the brand, they know that your brand was really born out of a severe health crisis. And you're sitting in front of me healthy and strong so I feel like I can ask this question. Okay, ready for this. So- |
| Indie Lee | I'm ready. |
| Jodi Katz | ... you're in this health crisis, you're about to embark on a really dangerous, scary surgery that had the potential to save your life, but also the potential to not save your life. |
| Indie Lee | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| Jodi Katz | And you told me that before the surgery, you attain closure with everybody, even your high school boyfriends. |
| Indie Lee | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| Jodi Katz | So I really need to know what does somebody say to a high school boyfriend? |
| Indie Lee | I mean, I really did. It's not like I had a plethora of boyfriends. It was like one call, two calls, but I remember one of them I call just to make sure that there was closure and I did it and I will never forget because they're like, "Are you dying or something?" Like, "No, no, no. I just felt like things didn't always end the way we thought they would and I just wanted to let you know I think you're a really good person and I'm sorry for anything that I might've ever done or said that hurt you." And then one of the other boyfriends who I'm still very close with, he knew what was going on, but I said, "No, I want to apologize. Was there anything that I ever did?" For me, it was less about me, but more about them. And I didn't just do this... I just didn't just reach out to the two boyfriends. It was any friends from high school, any friends from my work life, my family. There's no such thing as perfection, but I want to feel like if the surgery didn't go the way I thought it was going to, there would be closure on their end. And even though I believed and knew in my heart that I was going to be a complete success, I wanted to wake up with the most phenomenal energy and the rest of my life in front of me with no regrets. And that's what I did. |
| Jodi Katz | That's incredible to say to yourself that I'm ready for the next chapter and actually dot all the i's and cross all the t's, right? |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | Because I guess you'd sort of have a before cancer, after cancer thinking then, right? Like this was like a different life. I would imagine- |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | …living before this diagnosis. |
| Indie Lee | For sure. For sure. And I always like to note. Ironically, it wasn't even cancer. It was an autoimmune disease that was a brain tumor that they really didn't know what it was. And doctor said it could have been environmental as I'm sure we'll go into, but it wasn't even cancer, what people don't realize is brain tumors are not always cancerous. They're not always malignant. They can be benign, but just as life-threatening. But for me, the knowing that I could have a very finite amount of time left, gave me this opportunity to do it on my terms. And I don't know why it was such perspective because any conversations I have, I always have this feeling like this could be the last time I could talk to someone. You just don't know and I don't know why. I looked at it as this opportunity to create the life I wanted to moving forward. |
| Jodi Katz | It's so fascinating. Number one, I didn't know that a brain tumor wasn't always cancer, I guess I just always associated with that- |
| Indie Lee | And most people do by the way, so. |
| Jodi Katz | Right... but yes, we have like a small amount of space in there and most of it needs to be dedicated to the functioning brain. There's not room for other invaders. |
| Indie Lee | Yep. |
| Jodi Katz | So you mentioned to me that prior to the diagnosis, you were a passenger in your own life. |
| Indie Lee | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| Jodi Katz | What does that mean? |
| Indie Lee | I was just going about the flow, right? I was a check the box or like don't forget. I told you, I'm an accountant. I was a type A, I am a type A personality. So I was checking the boxes of what I thought I had to accomplish in my life. I had checked the box, I went to college and I got my degree, then check the box, pass the CPA exam. Then check the box and went off and I had an incredible career at HBO managing international finance. It was phenomenal. I got to travel, but checked the box that I had that career. Checked the box I had to have kids. I wanted a boy and girl. By the way, I didn't have control over that one, but it worked out well for me. Check, check. I was literally checking the boxes and always looking at what would I have to go to next? What would I have to achieve next? And I forgot that the point of life wasn't going and achieving what's next, it was living in the now and being a part of the journey. It's not the end destination. It's this journey that we're on to get to wherever those things lead us. And I was just a passenger. And in the moment I was diagnosed and I got into the car, I realized, "Oh my gosh, the past 37 years, I've been checking the boxes of what I thought I had to accomplish in my life instead of actually living it." And like that snap of a finger, everything changed. And I realized I was no longer going to live like that. |
| Jodi Katz | So, Indie, prior to the diagnosis where you reading self-help books? Was there any sort of infusion of visibility into another way of living that you were exploring? |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. Actually, I'm a practicing Buddhist. So I have been for over 20 years. So before this, I already believed in self-care and the power of having faith and positivity and manifestations and everything under the sun. I had that understanding and I had that practice and there are many things that I've accomplished in my life, both in my career and just had children and health concerns, et cetera, that could not be explained without that practice that I have for myself. However, I was still a passenger. So while I was still so positive and I am one of those people who... Yeah, I've had executive coaching, I've done it all. Therapy, all those things and try to... Really believe I am one of the most optimistic people you will come across and I truly believe in living that way. But up until that point, I wasn't. I was reading it. I was doing it, but I wasn't part. It's this weird distinction and everything changed. It was like I saw it, but it wasn't crystal clear. I always liken it to... Okay, I had this vision of I understood about manifesting and abundance and living your life and energy and all that stuff. And yes, I am somewhat woo woo but don't forget I'm also like a nerdy accountant, but it's like okay, you can see everything, but then you go to the doctors, the ophthalmologist or optometrist and they go, "One or two, three or four," and you put those glasses and also everything's like, "Whoa, I thought I was seeing, but now it's clear." |
| Jodi Katz | It makes me think of this phrase that my friend once said to me. There's human being and there's human doing and we're human beings, right? So, the doing is it checking the boxes like, "Okay, I did it, I did it, I did it." But without really thinking about it in the deepest parts of your soul, you're not really being. |
| Indie Lee | Yeah, I wasn't. I was human doing, it was not a human being, as I like to say we're all spiritual beings having a human experience that saying, and it's so true. And while I thought I was pretty spiritual, I wasn't having the experience. I was doing it. Great distinction. |
| Jodi Katz | Yeah. I think that I was similar until I was trying to get pregnant and I couldn't. And I went through the infertility process and like the first thing they tried didn't work. And I sort of had a breakdown breakthrough to start really listening to my feelings and understanding myself in a way that I never... I wasn't intimate with myself. I never really knew myself. I kind of ignored myself. And these crises really help us see things in a new light. And I do have a boy and a girl now through the powers of medicine and I'm super grateful, but I do see that experience is like it needed to happen for me to start to see my world in a brand new way. |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. I think that's what these traumas and these experiences and it's not always traumas, but I do believe that we all have carry some of that. It really helps us. It gives us that perspective that sometimes even though all the signs and people can say it over and over and you can read every self-help book and have all these gurus that you're following, but until you internalize it and then understand it for yourself in a way that's digestible, that's the only time it's going to change. You have to want it. |
| Jodi Katz | So to walk away from our woo woo conversation into a different territory, you told me at the moment you were given this diagnosis, you sold my jewelry, you cashed in your 401(k). |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | You went into credit card debt because you said I'm a hustler. So, what was happening where you get a six months to live diagnosis and decide, let me start a business? |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. Because that's normal. Isn't it? Doesn't everybody do that? I look back on it now, like I was nuts. Okay. So I get this diagnosis, I go to see all these specialists and they say, "You have six months to live." And I go to the neuroendocrinologist and I say, "How is this possible?" And I said, "Nobody has this." And that's when he said, "We're seeing more and more of these things being tied to the environment." And I pointed out I have this organic greenhouse in my backyard that I eat out and it's not like a little tiny hoop. It's 750 square feet. Like I was in it. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was really in it. And that's when I said, "Yes, what you eat, what you surround yourself with, what do you put on your body?" And that was that light bulb that I go, "Oh my gosh." I had created some products for my nephew who is about to be born because I didn't want anything potentially harmful on his body. Knowing about toxic load, knowing to the lack of regulation, all those things, never thought about the bigger picture even when people say, "Hey, you should create a baby line." I'm like, "What are you talking about? It's 2008, clean beauty?" And then I get this diagnosis. And in that moment, I was like, "This is happening for a reason," was like clear. It was my awakening. It was the Oprah Winfrey aha moment, whatever you want to call it. I said, "I'm going to create a line that's safe, that's effective, that looks beautiful on a shelf because 2008, 2009 it did not look like that." And more importantly, I really wanted to educate and empower others to live the healthiest version of their life, given everything that I was going through. And when you're given six months, you can decide how you want to live it. So, when my kids were home, I was with them. But when they were at school, I was speaking to every aroma therapist, naturopathic, homeopathic, aromatherapy, you name it... Dermatologist to really understand skincare, the beauty industry and I started creating. I was like, "I'm to create this line. I'm going to do this." And by the way, I was looking for a doctor who would give me different diagnosis and prognosis at the same time, but it kept me focused. And I knew it was my mission. With every fiber of my body, I knew I wanted to create change. And I was like, "Well, we don't have any money." So I was like, "I don't need these rings. I don't need this chain. Gold is at an all time high. I can't take it with me. I might die." And I started selling my jewelry. My mother was like, "You're never having access to our vault." And then I was like, "Well, that's not enough." So then I emptied the 401(k) and then I was like, "Well..." A couple of years later, "Yep, we need some more money. So, yep, I got a credit card." And I said, "I'll figure it out. Everything's figureoutable but I have to do this. I want to create change. I want to live a legacy of change. I want to help other people." I believe that I was going to live for a reason and I am still paying off the credit card debt, but I have no regrets. |
| Jodi Katz | Indeed. The topic for entrepreneurs of financial insecurity is always so challenging. And everyone seems to experience it a little bit of a different way. Some entrepreneurs I talk to they're like, "Well, whatever." Like you said, "Okay, well, the credit card that's there, but it is what it is and eventually will go away, more loans." And some people like me, see it as sort of a zombie kind of character following me around. Sometimes it's really far away, but like I always see a shadow. Sometimes it gets closer and makes my neck tingly. So do you think that it was like your health scare that made you kind of be like, "Whatever. It's fine. I'm not worrying about it?" |
| Indie Lee | I think to some extent, yes. Don't forget. At first I was emptying money that I had, you know what I mean? I wasn't going to debt. So, I was literally taking things that I couldn't take with me if I was going to die to create something. And then the 401(k), I was like, "I really believe that I'm onto something. I believe in myself, this is an investment in what I believe in." The credit card debt was like, "I can't stop now. I'm already in it. I'm so far in it. I can't stop now." And then we had some friends and family also come in, et cetera, but I also felt like I needed skin in the game, which I clearly had in terms of what else am I putting in? But I think that perspective of what I had gone through made me realize I'm in. Like I believe and I'm not someone who says I don't believe. I used to say I don't believe in failure, but I've come to rephrase that. I'm not going to be deterred. Failure is a great thing as long as you learn from it, but I'm not going to get deterred from what I want to do. And I know that what happened to me created that shift in my mindset. Because if you would've asked me how I was described prior to it would be beige and bland and afraid of my own shadow. Like really. |
| Jodi Katz | So your kids were... I think you told me, five and eight when you got the diagnosis. Do you think that they saw a shift in you of the prediagnosis mom versus the post-surgery mom? |
| Indie Lee | 100%. 100%. I don't know that my daughter like wrecking... They see the difference, they see the hustle, they see the passion, but my daughter was still so young in terms of her formative memories of things. And my son 1,000%. My gosh, he sees it and they're so proud of me and what I've accomplished. It's so cool. My son, I can't even believe it. He's now 20, in college and he said, "Mom, look at what you did from nothing." And it's so cool. They recently, about two years ago, back when we were able to travel. They came with me to see me do some things on stage with Nordstrom trends show and masterclasses. And they said, "Mom, I had absolutely no idea this is what you can do." They see me on the phone, whatever. But they were like, "Whoa." They knew I wasn't the person who wanted to call the pizza man to order pizza. I was afraid of my own shadow. Now, I'm getting on stage. Give me a mic and go, "Hey, let me tell you." So absolutely, they see it and they're so proud. And they know that it takes hard work to accomplish things, that sometimes yes, things magical can happen in transpire, but it does take a lot of work and takes self-determination and belief in yourself. |
| Jodi Katz | I love that they get to see this in you because when I started my business, I had this assumption, because I always felt like an outsider that things were easier for other people, right? And for me, I was struggling. And that for other people who had born into this or went to college with so-and-so, that all those things that I dreamed about were going to happen for them, but they might not happen for me. So it's so beautiful that they actually get to see that like their mom can make something happen, therefore they can make anything happen. |
| Indie Lee | Absolutely. They know that what I went through was transformational. Jacob knows it from living and Emily's seen it and she sees parts of it and realized some of it. But don't forget like, just because I started the business so many years ago doesn't mean that all of a sudden I was a success. They're now seeing the transformation at another level now. They used to see... We go to Henri Bendel's and hawk my wares at a trunk show and now they're like, "Oh my God, your stuff is in every Bluemercury." They're like, "What?" So it's very cool. Or their friends will say, "Oh my gosh, I saw your mother's product in Ulta, what?" So, it's a whole different level that they have seen that part of the transformation of what has been created. |
| Jodi Katz | It's so inspiring. And it makes me think of all this passion and hard work, completely focused and rooted on your personal experience. I would imagine that this awful trend of greenwashing is pretty painful to see in the world. |
| Indie Lee | It is, it is. It's so funny, way back when we used to have stickers on our products that said not greenwashed and people were like, "What's greenwashing?" And this was 2010 and I was using that term. And I said, "Do you ever see a made with, like with a leaf on it? That's kind of what it is." And it is really hard to watch. But what I've learned is I cannot look at other people and what other people are doing. I need to just focus on what we can do and what we're going to do. And it goes to when people say, "What's your competition?" I said, "It's ourselves. We just need to continue to up our own ante. If we start to look and compare ourselves to everybody else, we're going to lose focus on what we're meant to do." And everybody's on their own journey, but it does kill me when I have to explain what it is, I'm like, "Oh my God, you didn't know this?" |
| Jodi Katz | Right. So I think in service to the customer, she's really confused. There's no doubt about it. |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | And here I am, I'm someone who like literally studies this, right? My team, I study this and we'll look at abroad and be like, "Wait, is this legit or not?" So- |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | ... it's really easy to be tricked and confused. It's way too easy for brands, like you said, just stick a leaf on the label and like say cucumber and then people think that that mean something. |
| Indie Lee | Mm-hmm (affirmative). Made with organic cucumber. And then they like, "Oh my God, look, this is a clean product. It's made with organic cucumber." Yeah. Well, turn over the label and see what else it's made it. And it's hard. |
| Jodi Katz | But what... I've been supporting clean brands for... I can't even remember how long. Maybe, yeah. Maybe it's like 2010-ish. How do we help the customer here? Because she really does desire better. |
| Indie Lee | And she deserves better. |
| Jodi Katz | She deserves better. |
| Indie Lee | You know what she deserves? She deserves the truth. So, as I like to say you know the risk, you make the choice. And that's what I say like even if I'm putting on a red lipstick that isn't clean, I know the risks, I make the choice. So what can we do is give her information. Knowledge is power and that's why I've said my platform has always been to educate and empower so people can make the healthiest choice for themselves, but they deserve to know the truth. And that's why I think these conversations are so important. That's why the masterclasses that I do, the Lives, all those things, Clubhouse, going on all these different apps and being honest. Never going to bash a brand, never going to... But I will talk about an ingredient. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. So you do recommend any third party resources for customers to read so that they can learn the language and unfortunately you have to study chemistry to really track this stuff. |
| Indie Lee | You really... Honestly, you really do, because even though there's some incredible apps out there, they're not necessarily getting the formulation and nor is the brand going to give them the formulation. So how are they making that decision that a product is good or bad? How are they staying up to date with the ingredient deck? I've had people say, I'm like, "That's not what's in our Inkey list. That's not our product. What are you doing? You can't say that that's not what's in my ingredient deck." Or yes, I might have glycolic or salicylic, but I have it at the X%, which is well below any caution signs and there's a reason for it because it's in a product that's promotes clarity. So, it's that education and it's really hard because there is no app that's going to be doing that. But what I do see is a lot of brands going for the third-party validation certification. Something that we certainly have gone for, we've made the decision to go with Soil Association COSMOS. So certified COSMOS, organic and certified COSMOS natural, depending on the product and the ingredients, but working towards going through all of our products slowly and that certifies everything from the ingredient and how was the farming of the ingredient, to the manufacturing, to the distillation, the cleaning, it's a whole thing. It's not just like, "Here's the product." Was it certified? We are going through the entire process and to an EU directive. |
| Jodi Katz | I love that. I was on an app for something that was not related to beauty and it was giving me the heritage of where the ingredient came from. Like you said, like the farm or something and I was so surprised by the fact that an outside industry outside of beauty was even interested in that. |
| Indie Lee | Yeah, I think so. I think transparency is what is being asked for. Radical transparency. |
| Jodi Katz | What's amazing to me is I think as an industry, sometimes we're talking to ourselves because I have friends in my neighborhood who literally don't do anything with skincare. Don't wear a stitch of makeup and turn to me and say, "What should I buy?" Right? So now they're ready. Maybe they turn 45 and all of a sudden they're seeing their skin behave in ways that they're not familiar with and want to evolve it. So, it's amazing to me how much we do talk to ourselves. |
| Indie Lee | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| Jodi Katz | And I wonder if you have any thoughts on how to actually reach people beyond these sort of heavy users? |
| Indie Lee | I think that the best thing that's been happening to reach people is just the mainstream retailers really embracing clean, right? You're seeing the Sephoras, the Nordstroms, the Neimans, the Bluemercurys, the Ultas of the world, have these sections for clean beauty, conscious beauty or however they're going to call it. Everybody has different name for it. And so I see that the retailers are also providing, I think, but the hard part is not every retailer is consistent on what they're saying. So there's discrepancies amongst retailers. But the other great thing is that you've got clean retailers out there who are really giving you information, the Credos, the Follains, the Detox Markets, the ILIAs of the world that are doing the work, providing the information and providing you with resources that are third-party. So it's not like a brand is saying, "Hey..." Because it's hard. I might say this, but you're like, "Yeah, well, your selling price." So great, fine. Go and see where we're sold. Go see the sections that were here, go talk to the people in those. They are brand educators, true educators in this field and are really holding brands to continual higher and higher standards of what they will and will not allow. And it's an evolving process and brands are going to have to change with them. And so I think that's a great resource is going to those clean retailers because you're going to see exactly what they stand for and they're going to tell you why. |
| Jodi Katz | Yes, the curation and editing that a retailer with that kind of focus that gives the customer comfort. And it also takes the edge off, right? Like I don't need to do the research because Follain did it for me. |
| Indie Lee | Yeah. |
| Jodi Katz | Right? And by the way, I'm a super huge Follain fan. I feel like Follain is the future. |
| Indie Lee | Tara Foley I adore her as a friend, as a colleague, as an inspiration. I adore. I adore. |
| Jodi Katz | Yeah. We're super fans of their stores. Okay. So we have a few minutes left. |
| Indie Lee | Uh-huh (affirmative). |
| Jodi Katz | I want to talk really practical entrepreneur stuff, like how to run your business as you want to start evolving and growing and scaling? So you were self-funded in the beginning. |
| Indie Lee | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| Jodi Katz | What was your process in your mind when you're like, "You know what? I need outside investors, I need smart money." Tell us a little bit about what was happening in the business, because we have a lot of listeners who might be getting to that point? |
| Indie Lee | I think one of the best little things you just... Well, this whole conversation, but you made a great comment, smart money. For me, it wasn't just money. It was smart. I needed somebody who had the expertise to scale the business and had the connections. So I came from entertainment. I didn't know the buyers or how to have a conversation with a buyer to get what I needed or to provide them. I didn't know what was normal when all of a sudden you're saying, "Wait, store support, what do you mean?" Or, "Wait, I need to give you sampling and wait, it's not just little things." I didn't know what that meant. And so, we got to a point where I needed to make money. Like I had kids who were going to look at college and so I was getting the look like, "Yooh, college time, we're going to need to do something here." So it was that and wearing too many hats. I mean, way too many hats. They were like three of us in the company. And I'm like, "Okay, this can't continue." And I literally looked up to the sky and I'm like, "Okay, universe, I need a sign. I need help." And a couple of people would call. You get those things and we weren't at that point where we're doing the type of money and then you have to trust your gut too. I got an email from Lori Perella Krebs, who said, "Hey, I'm Lori, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is what I've done, Fekkai," the whole thing, right? "And I'm working with this private equity firm and I'm really thinking about clean and I love your story. Do you have a few minutes?" And I don't know why I was willing to say, yeah. I was like, "Yeah, sure. I'm free now." The rest is history. And we call it, we dated where we kind of worked together to see if this is the right thing. Because again, I wanted someone who had experience in the beauty industry who could build a company, knew how to find the right sales team and put them together, understood what stores really needed. And we did that and look where we are. It's been incredible, but use your gut to... Get to a point where you're like, "I can't scale this. I need help." But another thing I would say is what you think you need, multiply it by minimum of three. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. Because you don't know what you don't know. |
| Indie Lee | No. Like, "Oh, we need a couple of hundred thousand dollars." No, we didn't. We needed millions of dollars to get to the scale of where we are and what we wanted to do. And you have to have that reality conversation with yourself. And I also knew I would rather have a smaller piece of this company that was creating the mission that I wanted to from that doctor's office versus having a lot of something that nobody knew about. |
| Jodi Katz | Right. This is like watching Shark Tank, right? Like, "Just take the offer. What are you doing? Why are you squabbling over like two percentage points? This is ridiculous." Like having opportunity be put in front of you and say no to it because of I guess ego or whatever, this inflated sense of value. That's like the Shark Tank story. I love Shark Tank. My kids, and I watch it together, so much fun with that show. |
| Indie Lee | It's great, but there's a lot of truth to that. You need to realize they actually know you need a heck of a lot more than you think, because there is so much you're not thinking about. Legal fees for trademark, IP, scaling, the minimums on buying the bespoke jars and bottles and all those things. You just don't realize. You can't buy 500 jars that are perfectly screened with your name across 20 SKUs. It's just not going to happen. So you have to be in reality too. |
| Jodi Katz | Indie, I love this conversation. I'm so excited that we get to spend time together today and that you're showing your wisdom with our listeners. Thank you so much. |
| Indie Lee | No, thank you. |
| Jodi Katz | And for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Indie. Please subscribe to our series on iTunes, and for updates about the show, follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast . |
| Announcer | Thanks for listening to Where Brains Meet Beauty® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders. |
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