Episode 76: Cathi Singh, Makeup Artist and Owner of LemonPenny Productions

09.19.2018

Summary

There are some jobs you can’t get a degree in, and have no linear point of entry or even a standardized test for qualification. You know, like makeup artist? So, here to break down how to break into this arm of the beauty industry is Cathi Singh, a California-based MUA. Sharing her experience on everything from how to get started to what you need to learn beyond cosmo school, she demystifies the process of making a dream job reality.

Transcript

Announcer	Welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi Katz	Hey everybody, welcome back to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®. I'm so excited to be sitting across from Cathi Singh. Welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY®.
Cathi Singh	Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Jodi Katz	Cathi is a makeup artist and she also is the owner of Lemon Penny Productions. I want to tell our listeners about how we met. You are our official first guest who's also a pod fan. I just want to explain that a little bit more. Most of the people who've been on the show, I've either known through work, or their publicist pitches them, or a work friend introduces me to a work friend. But we really just organically met you over social.
Cathi Singh	Organically found you. Yes.
Jodi Katz	Right. On Instagram.
Cathi Singh	On Instagram.
Jodi Katz	You are a super fan.
Cathi Singh	I am. I have binged. On the way here I binged it. I listened to some favorites again. But I think you guys set the tone for my day a lot. I listen to you on my way to work. It just kind of gets me pumped up to hear other artists, and people in the industry. It gets you in the right mindset.
Jodi Katz	It's incredibly meaningful for me to hear this.
Cathi Singh	Really?
Jodi Katz	Oh my God, yes. Because when I started this show, I really needed it therapeutically. I needed to be able to talk to people for real. Not about how fabulous you are, and how much money you make, and how many products you've sold. I wanted to hear about real stuff. Are you stressed out?
Cathi Singh	A ground floor. What do you do when you go home?
Jodi Katz	Yes.
Cathi Singh	How do you really feel after that shoot. Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Yes.
Cathi Singh	Real life, I appreciate that.
Jodi Katz	Or how do you really feel when you don't get that work that you really hoped you were getting. Or when the bank account is low, and financial insecurity takes hold.
Cathi Singh	The hole you go into.
Jodi Katz	Yes. It is so meaningful to me to hear that, these stories matter.
Cathi Singh	Absolutely.
Jodi Katz	And you made a post that was amazing. It was you and ... Why don't you tell us?
Cathi Singh	I was driving to a shoot. I commute a lot. I work all over Southern California, so I was driving up to the mountains in Big Bear with 24 hours notice, mind you. I just put on a bunch of podcasts, it was just this ... I was putting on the Supergoop Glowstick Sunscreen. I looked down and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I am literally listening to the Supergoop podcast, while putting on Supergoop, while driving. So I took a picture and it was the most, like you said, the most meta makeup moment. It was a good happy accident.
Jodi Katz	That's really cool.
Cathi Singh	I am wearing that today. It's my favorite thing.
Jodi Katz	That's awesome.
Cathi Singh	It's the best glow stick ever.
Jodi Katz	Tell us how you heard about the pod.
Cathi Singh	I heard about the pod from Instagram. I follow makeup artist Fiona Stiles and she posted something. She posts amazing content through [inaudible 00:02:26] and all this, but she posted how much it was benefiting her and it was ground level, it was real information. Anything she says, I check it out. After that I was hooked. Totally hooked.
Jodi Katz	Cool. Let's talk about you. How did you start as a makeup artist?
Cathi Singh	As a makeup artist. My mom always told me I was a primary color child.
Jodi Katz	You were a primary color child?
Cathi Singh	I was a primary color child. My favorite color is lime green. I just loved bright and happy things. I painted everything I could get my hands on. I redecorated furniture and I would constantly make things, pottery, ceramics. I knew it was going to be a path. However, I changed when I got older and I got a journalism degree, and thought that would be my path. Senior year, realized that I was going back to my roots and it wasn't really fitting. I started diving into wardrobe. I thought I would be a stylist, a costumer, something like that, design. I reached out to some friends and I started doing these silly little music videos, and borrowing bomber jackets from surplus stores, I mean like, whoa. I should not have been doing that. It was really good experience. I just did a couple of them. My girlfriend recommended me to another stylist and said, "She can assist. She's available." I said, "Absolutely, I would love to be a part." I get the call sheet, it's in Palm Springs, it's for three days. It's assisting a stylist who was working on a Self Magazine shoot for Elizabeth Banks. I went from zero to a hundred overnight. Had no idea what I was doing. I just steamed clothes. I steamed clothes for hours and hours and hours. The whole entire time I was steaming clothes. I was glued to this makeup artist. I could not stop starting at what she was doing, and the way she was doing it, and the stuff on her table. I had never been in that world. I didn't realize that was a job, I guess, I just never put two and two together that I could do that for a living. I just steaming my clothes, and I kept watching her. I was just addicted to her. Then I came home, and I told my husband, "I think I'm in the right industry, I'm in the wrong department. So I need to switch departments."
Jodi Katz	Do you remember who that makeup artist was that you were watching?
Cathi Singh	That makeup artist was Fiona Stiles.
Jodi Katz	That's pretty cool.
Cathi Singh	That's a pretty amazing moment. She is still Elizabeth Banks' makeup artist. I still follow her. I've never met her but I did email her that story and say thank you.
Jodi Katz	You never met Fiona?
Cathi Singh	I've never met her actually, in person. I know we're in the same city, but she ... Just her information and her nest that day was there. It was also a good testament that people are watching you on set when you don't know.
Jodi Katz	Right.
Cathi Singh	Right? I was a peon. I was a steamer. I had no makeup on. I was in the corner, but I was watching her. It constantly reminds me that everybody on set has eyeballs, and they're watching you. Whatever you're doing, you're on display all the time. It was a good reminder.
Jodi Katz	Right, well that's so fascinating. You saw what Fiona was doing, but that doesn't mean you become a makeup artist overnight.
Cathi Singh	No. No, no. I went to my Smashbox counter, and I thought, "Okay. I'll just start doing makeup. I need faces. I need to start doing stuff." I asked and I freelanced. Did a little demo. Got hired. Started doing freelance. Started doing a gazillion faces. I worked seven days a week. I worked in an office, and Friday, Saturday, and Sunday I would use my vacation days to do events. Like, on a Friday, and then work the whole weekend. I just got hooked on it.
Jodi Katz	Wait, so you went to the Smashbox counter-
Cathi Singh	First.
Jodi Katz	Where?
Cathi Singh	In my little town.
Jodi Katz	Oh, okay.
Cathi Singh	Not a big deal.
Jodi Katz	But you weren't a makeup artist. You just said, "I want to be a makeup artist?"
Cathi Singh	Mm-hmm (affirmative). I had been playing on people's faces, and I had always done that. My past is a synchronized swimmer. I had a lot of that happening.
Jodi Katz	Okay. Let's not skip over the synchronized swimming.
Cathi Singh	Okay.
Jodi Katz	Okay. You were an 11 year old prodigy synchronized swimmer. Do I have that right?
Cathi Singh	I was a freakishly tall 11 year old, yes. I joined synchronized swimming as a summer sport, just to learn, then did it for seven more years competitively. We were nationally ranked. It was some of the best experience of my life. It taught me discipline, an incredible work ethic, we swam about 40 hours a week. I didn't have a lot of free time. It taught me discipline, and it taught me teamwork. It taught me, there's eight girls that are depending on you. We all learned stage makeup, waterproof makeup at the same time, at 11 years old. There was Maybelline Great Lash, a lot of that going along. The three dollar mascara. Back in the day.That was a really good foundation for me. I think, looking back, that is where I think I started liking makeup a lot. Where I started actually doing makeup and having to be creative. We would paint fans on our faces, and flowers, and we had headpieces. We would just go all out. I have crazy pictures, but synchro makeup is a different world. It's a little bit more severe, so you can see it from far, but also waterproof. It was a good foundation. Little did I know that that would come back. So then I get back to Smashbox. I email every makeup artist I can find, from San Diego to Los Angeles. I emailed them and I asked them, I found this one school, this Institute of Makeup, or something. I emailed them and said, "Did you find this class helpful? Can I assist? Can I work? What do I do? How do I do this?" I got maybe a handful of responses, understandably. I was very, very green. One of those responses was Melissa Street. She called me and said, "You know, I'm making a two and a half hour drive to LA, why don't you give me a call and we'll chat?" I went, "Oh wow, that's amazing." I had, as a journalism student, I had two and a half pages of a legal notepad of like, "How does this? How do you get a business card? Where do you buy your brushes? And how do you ... " Like, the silliest questions.
Jodi Katz	You sat down, in advance of the call and wrote down every single question you had.
Cathi Singh	Mm-hmm (affirmative). Everything I wanted to know about how to get started as a makeup artist. Every single question. She got on the phone with me, probably thinking, "I'll answer two and we'll get off the phone. Cut this up." Two and a half hours later, we were still on the phone. She was just getting to LA, and we got off the phone and I took the phone down and thought, "There's something about her. That was amazing. Who does that for a stranger?" After that, I took a small class. I met Tricia Sawyer through that, who is, she department heads House of Cards, which just wrapped up. She was Sharon Stone's makeup artist for many, many years when I met her. She also mentored me. She took me under her wing, taught me makeup. Taught me the basics, like the 101 in her school. Then less than a month later, I would say, she called me and said, it was the writers strike, 2008-ish. No one was working. Right when I got into makeup, not a soul was working. There was nothing happening. All these giant names were doing little indie films. It was just all these magical moments that come together. That moment, she called me and said, "Do you want to assist?" I was like, "Absolutely. I'll be there tomorrow." I had never been on a movie set. I had never seen an actor bag, I've never seen any of that before. I walked in, she gave me an actor bag, with all the stuff for my guy, and put it in my hand and went, "There he is. Okay. Go ahead." I was like, "Um ... Now what? What's next? When do I go in there?" It was like guerrilla teaching. I think that's how I learn best. I was thrown into it.
Jodi Katz	So what did you actually have to do? You walk over to the actor and do what?
Cathi Singh	Yeah, touch ups. You maintain his continuity. You maintain the look. He was ... I'm sure he tells the story quite differently, but he was a very, very sweet bald gentleman. I think I took that puff, and I just patted his head, like I was patting him. It was horribly embarrassing, I'm sure, for him. I called the monitor, which we watch in video village, I called it the TV screen the whole. The other makeup artists were like, "Don't call it that anymore." I learned a lot. My first makeup on a man took me over 30 minutes. I was so nervous. I was so slow. I took my time and he was like, "Okay. I think we're about done." I'm like, "Oh, we are done. Okay, that's great." It was a lot of these little moments but ...
Jodi Katz	Do you remember who all these people are that were your test subjects?
Cathi Singh	I don't remember him. I could look up the film and see it. It was called Repo Chick, was the film, my very first movie. I found that call sheet and just so those people who think I had this magical moment on set, I did not. I was very much interning. I did not get paid, as you should not, as an intern. On my very first call sheet, on the back of it, which should have been this thing I keep forever, is the coffee order for the entire makeup and hair department team. That was my job. I had him, but really I was there to clean brushes and to get coffee, which I did gratefully.
Jodi Katz	Did you day job while this was happening?
Cathi Singh	Mm-hmm (affirmative). I worked in an office. I was pulling my hair out. That's when I realized this is not going to work in my realm. I have a lot of energy, and I get stuck behind a desk and I just want to explode.
Jodi Katz	But you kept the day job because you needed to make money.
Cathi Singh	Needed it. Yeah. I needed it. We had just got married, we just bought a house. We were starting our life, and here I go, I'm like, "Hey, I'm going to change my entire career right now.
Jodi Katz	Was it scary?
Cathi Singh	It was really scary. It was really scary. I've always looked at this industry as being kind of daunting. Another reason I'm glad you're doing this, really it's kind of scary to break into. I've done this for 10 years, so 10 years ago it was quite different. Instagram and everything wasn't happening. It was quite daunting just to get your foot in the door, I felt like. I felt like, at that time, you needed to ... You still need to know somebody, but you needed to ... There were not as many routes in. It was a really competitive field. It still is. To a person who's not competitive, I found that, "Where do I start? Where do I go? Do I go to school? Do I just call people? What do I do?" I still people who ask me that, just assist. Email people, ask them. Find the person you want work, who does what you want to do, and then follow that person. Just follow the map.
Jodi Katz	Right. I'm not a makeup artist or a hair stylist, but it does feel like a lawless world. Right?
Cathi Singh	It is. It's the wild west. It is a circus. There's no rules, it's everyone's out for themselves. You're an individual. You work on a team, but sometimes that can cause issues 'cause everybody's so independent. We're all very independent individuals 'cause we have to be. I literally bring my office to work every day. I bring 80 pounds of makeup, 20 pounds of brushes, a chair, and lights to my job, every single day. Most people don't do that. It's a little bit different that I go to a different place every day. I think you have to toughen your skin a little bit.
Jodi Katz	Right, so we have a lot of listeners who are makeup artists and hair stylists. I get it, because they're all entrepreneurs. Right?
Cathi Singh	All of us. Yeah.
Jodi Katz	There's so much ... I feel like, there's almost a ... How do I say it in a kind way to the industry? I just don't know that there's as much respect for the entrepreneurialism that it takes to be successful. I don't even mean a household name, I mean make a living. You are an entrepreneur and your peers are entrepreneurs, just as the person who runs a brand is an entrepreneur.
Cathi Singh	I agree. This is a business. I've seen lately a lot of movement towards makeup as a business, which I really, really love. Melissa Street is doing a great job of that, and teaching young artists the business. You need to know what an invoice is, you need to know what an estimate is. You need to know when to pay your taxes. This is important stuff to keep track of, and when to send your producer, how to communicate to that person. It's okay to ask questions. You can't just get a call sheet and then be like, "I'll see you." That is not good enough. You need to be proactive. This is your name on the line. This is your face on the line. Every single job is your name on the line. It's someone's face up there. It's your job to make them look good. I ask a lot of questions.
Jodi Katz	Right, but not just to make that person look good, but to, like you said, be compatible with the crew.
Cathi Singh	Exactly.
Jodi Katz	Be someone that everyone wants to work with. I'm curious to know, is there less prima donna-ishness in the industry now? Has that subsided? Or is it still that way?
Cathi Singh	I think that's subsided. I think in my world. I'm not predominantly in fashion or editorial. I work more production, television, live events, commercials, personal clients, but in that I haven't met too many prima donnas or I just don't accept it.
Jodi Katz	Right, right.
Cathi Singh	'Cause I just squash it. I stay in my lane. If they are, I'm like, "Good for you. Good on you. I'm going to go this way."
Jodi Katz	Do you find yourself on sets with prima donnas? Directors or photographers?
Cathi Singh	Not too much. Everyone I've met is pretty much good for the goal. We're all going towards the goal. There's been a couple where we haven't been compatible. It's interesting how quickly you figure that out. You could figure that out within, I think, almost minutes. When you're setting up you'll be like, "Okay. I gotta be on my game today, this is going to be interesting. This is going to be a little different than normal." You can find out when those are and you just ... I think you have to have an awareness about you, which I'm constantly striving for, and to be a problem solver and not a people pleaser, which I constantly strive for, 'cause I am a people pleaser to a fault at times. In this industry you bend over backwards to make everyone happy at the cost of yourself.
Jodi Katz	Right, so tell me about the people pleasing.
Cathi Singh	It's really easy to do in this industry, I think. I think you can say yes to everything. It's a circus. It's the wild west. Every job could be there today, and it could be gone tomorrow. You could be booked solid. I'm booked solid for this entire ... I literally go home tomorrow and fly and work the next day, but then the whole next week is open, and the next week after that, and the next week's booked. You want to jump at the opportunity when it comes, so you can tend to be a yes person very easily. You have to ... I've only learned this very recently, you have to take a step back and say, "Is this a good path for my career? Am I right fit for this job? Is this a good trajectory? Is this what they need? Is this what I need? Is this a good match?" If it's just a money grab or something, that's your decision, but I think if you're trying to choose wisely and work smart, and not people please, I have to take a step back and really, really think about it first.
Jodi Katz	Right. I struggle with people pleasing as well. I really unraveling it, I've been working hard at it.
Cathi Singh	Really?
Jodi Katz	Yes. I work hard, and have for 10 years trying to unravel it.
Cathi Singh	It's not easy.
Jodi Katz	For our listeners who maybe aren't people pleasers, it doesn't mean you say no to everything. It means that you think about, "How does this make me feel?" Sometimes you have to take something, just for the money, right?
Cathi Singh	Oh yeah, absolutely.
Jodi Katz	But it doesn't mean that that's the wrong reason to do it. Sometimes that's the right reason to do it. I think it's just about being true to who you are and knowing why you're making decisions.
Cathi Singh	I totally agree. I totally agree. Knowing why you made the decision. Not just for that person. Did you make that person happy? Okay, how do you feel? Did you just kill your week and kill your schedule and you didn't make enough money and you didn't ... To what end?
Jodi Katz	That's right.
Cathi Singh	To what end?
Jodi Katz	I think that the universe has given me so many opportunities to see this again and again, that it became so big in my face that eventually I just realized, "Oh, I see what I'm doing. I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing this for them." I've struggled with it for so long.
Cathi Singh	Really?
Jodi Katz	Yes.
Cathi Singh	That's comforting to hear. [crosstalk 00:18:32].
Jodi Katz	My agency is client services, it's not very different from yours, where mine's a perspective like, there is a client and their services need to be rendered. It doesn't mean I need to lose myself in the process though.
Cathi Singh	Not at all. But I think, just like your business, we are in a business of service. We walk that fine line of taking care of both of us, but the service, it is in my blood, is in my genetics. I want to be of service. I want to give of myself. I have done that to a fault at times and given too much, and then come home with nothing left, and completely depleted. I think, this year I really started looking back, and looking back at, okay, what are my strengths and what are my weaknesses? Because I have no energy. I'm done. I'm cooked at the end of the day. This is not fulfilling. It's not working for me and I had to go back and see where I'd been, to see where I wanted to go. Okay, I did that, okay I can handle that. This set me up for this, I know that I can conquer this, and I can do this, this is in my wheelhouse.
Jodi Katz	Right. Do you think that being a parent has helped you delineate between what is right for you versus what's wrong for you?
Cathi Singh	Absolutely. He's four and a half. I think that's when I started analyzing a bit more my career, and not just being ... I think I was a little spastic in the beginning. I was excited. I was, "Yes, I'll do it. Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, I'll drive there. I'll be there. I'm your girl." I love that, 'cause I love to be a teammate and to help. But I think that brought me, it grounded me. My husband says sometimes I'm a balloon, and I just need to stay on the earth a little bit.
Jodi Katz	Oh interesting.
Cathi Singh	I think that I can fly away really easily, it's really good to have something to ground you, and to give you perspective. I think he does that. He teaches me a lot. He made me organize really well too. Baby stuff is great but it makes you get all gadgety.
Jodi Katz	Yeah? That's great.
Cathi Singh	Organize stuff.
Jodi Katz	Let's talk about Emmy awards. You have multiple, as a makeup artist.
Cathi Singh	Yes I do. I do. I have won all of those under the wonderful guidance of Melissa Street. Her company is Epic Makeup and she has teams. These won for the Pacific Southwest chapter, and they were all commercials. One was for NBC Telemundo, we just recently won that. Another one was for some commercials, one that I department headed, so really, really proud of them. Something I really, really never actually put on my bucket list, I never really put as a goal, which ... I now have other goals similar to that, but I think it's nice to have that moment and stop and pause and be like, "I remember that weekend. I slept four hours. Okay, that paid off. I worked really, really hard and I'm glad someone saw that.
Jodi Katz	Right. What does it take to have Emmy winning makeup? What does that mean?
Cathi Singh	It depends. In where I'm at, it depends on what we're filming. With Melissa, I work with NBC in San Diego. We do Telemundo as well, so we do all of their commercials, all their promos, all of their spots. It's an honor to work with their entire team. The entire team. They get ... That's not good. They get submitted for those. It's camera ready, it's definitely high def, it's 4K, 8K, it's knowing the product, knowing what it looks like on camera. I'm a combo artist so I also have to do hair as well.
Jodi Katz	Oh really?
Cathi Singh	I don't do extensive hair, but I do light hair. But in California, combo artists are kind of ... I'm not sure if it's the same here but, they're kind of necessary. If you don't know hair, you better learn some hair, if you're going to do ... In my world.
Jodi Katz	Right. You're toting around your kit for makeup and your hair kit?
Cathi Singh	Yes. And a shoulder injury. It's great.
Jodi Katz	Did you get that from the heavy bags?
Cathi Singh	Yes. Hence my, I've been trying to organize my kit down and down and down lately. I share a lot on Instagram and social media with things, gadgets I find now. I think it's fun to give back in that way, and find ways to make your kit smaller because, here you can't have a huge kit. You just can't. In California we have mammoth kits.
Jodi Katz	Right, because you have cars to put them in.
Cathi Singh	Yeah we have giant vehicles. I think it's good to find ways to condense and really see what you need in your kit. You always need 1000 things.
Jodi Katz	Have their been times though you're thinking of something in your kit and you're like, "Ugh, I really wanted that on set?"
Cathi Singh	I've had moments of that, yeah. I put it back in and I'm like, "All better now." I feel better. It's like a security blanket sometimes.
Jodi Katz	Right?
Cathi Singh	It is 'cause you're in the middle, you could be, I was in Joshua Tree in the middle of nowhere in an RV, with no power. What am I ... I gotta bring a lot. I've gotta have everything I need. I gotta have all the baby wipes. What if there's no water? What if she has this? What if she can't brush her teeth? You've just got to think. Gotta think ahead three steps for your talent.
Jodi Katz	You're working on makeup that's going to be seen through 4K, and you said 8K. Do I need to live my life assuming 8K? What does that look like? If you put an 8K person on the street?
Cathi Singh	It looks just like real life. It's just much more ... There's pores. You see pores. You see powder. You really have ... The beauty blender is really your best friend. I airbrush. I use a lot of airbrush on men. When I do live events and they're live streamed in high def, as well as ... I just did a live event. We did 40 people live. They had jumbo screens, eight of them. They livestreamed it globally, and they had 16000 people in the audience. My work was literally being ... Down to the nitty gritty, the details. You have to make sure that everything is just very, very, worked in. Nothing can sit on top, 'cause you will see it. Everything has to be pulled all the way down. I see a lot of that still on TV, you have to pull it all the way down. Sometimes I'm noticing hands. The hands are a big deal now.
Jodi Katz	Yeah. I've noticed that too.
Cathi Singh	You've noticed the color?
Jodi Katz	I noticed the makeup that goes to here, and then the rest is just red and blotchy.
Cathi Singh	Red and blotchy, yes.
Jodi Katz	Because they're sweaty. Or they're getting aggravated. It makes a demarkation line right in the center of their neck.
Cathi Singh	Yeah. Another reason airbrush is great, by the way.
Jodi Katz	You wouldn't even use any powder? 'Cause you would always see it.
Cathi Singh	Sometimes I do. I do use powder, and I almost press, almost like a blot, almost that way. I changed my powder application. I've changed the way I use it as cameras have developed. It's interesting.
Jodi Katz	Right. We always ask our makeup artists on set for our client work to not use powder because it makes ... I mean, you just see it.
Cathi Singh	You see it.
Jodi Katz	I don't want to see it. We want to see skin, not makeup. I'm thinking about this whole 8K thing, I can imagine a marketer listening to this episode and being like, "Oh I need to make kits for my customers of 8K makeup."
Cathi Singh	8K.
Jodi Katz	Now I'm thinking, everyone's going to look like they're wearing layers of makeup 'cause they're putting on so much makeup but to walk out in the real world.
Cathi Singh	Oh no. I've had plenty of talent, I've done their 8K makeup and then they walked out into the real world.
Jodi Katz	And they're okay?
Cathi Singh	They're okay, yeah. I'm a lighter handed makeup artist, naturally. I don't do a lot of big looks. I like glowy skin, I like skin, I like highlight. I don't do a lot of those hard lines. That's just more my aesthetic.
Jodi Katz	Right. This is less about the product and more about the technique?
Cathi Singh	Mm-hmm (affirmative). Always. More about the technique. You can use it but as long as you have the right tools with you, I think you can achieve ... You can build it, you can work it. You're an artist, that's what you're supposed to do, be able to take a tool and use it.
Jodi Katz	Right. But we're human beings so don't we want to see pores?
Cathi Singh	I do, sometimes on TV I find it distracting, to be honest. I find it, I'm like, "Oh, I can see everything. Wow, okay." But I think it's good, it feels like real life. It's going to get bigger, it's not going to get smaller.
Jodi Katz	Right, so we're going to go to 25K [crosstalk 00:26:43].
Cathi Singh	Oh my gosh, we're just going be a holographic standing in front of you.
Jodi Katz	When you're briefed on a project like that, is the client saying to you, "We don't want our skin to look like skin"? Are they giving you direction? Or are they hiring you, knowing that what you're going to do is ...
Cathi Singh	Yeah. There's always direction. With something like that, especially if that was 8K, I would ask a lot of questions of the direction of the makeup. Are there changes? How many, I ask for the shot list. A shot list would contain, we're doing this ... I'll just give a quick example. We're going to do this headshot, and then we're going to move on to a tight, and then we're going to change the lens and we're going to go on this profile. At least, I have a heads up to be like, "Okay, we're going to start here. I really need to pay attention, 'cause her eyes are going to get a tight shot, so I need to be ready for that." You just need to be three steps ahead of that. I think, especially for high def. There's no time to fiddly fart around.
Jodi Katz	My last series of questions are going to be about all of the things you talked about before, but now you're on the other end of it. Should people email you if they're interested in being your assistant?
Cathi Singh	Yes.
Jodi Katz	Okay. Should they write down a ton of questions and try to schedule a call with you?
Cathi Singh	I hope so.
Jodi Katz	How can they learn about how to organize their finances and pay taxes and ask the right questions before starting a gig? Where can they learn that?
Cathi Singh	That stuff would not be from me. I don't teach business. For your taxes and things, you might need to work ... But the ins and outs of the invoices and stuff, really Melissa Street gives amazing advice on how, and set etiquette. Set etiquette is a big deal. They don't teach that in school.
Jodi Katz	Right, so where do you learn that?
Cathi Singh	On set. Or from other artists assisting. You learn assisting. If you don't know set etiquette and you go on set, it will not bode well for you. There are rules. There are ways when you go in, it's a dance. It's a beautiful dance. I think that's why I like it. It reminds me of synchro. It's everybody working. Under the water is chaos and above is all beautiful and perfect, and we're all smiling, but under the water we're sweating it out and that's us. I think it's a beautiful dance of finding when to go in and when to touch up, and when not to, and when not to ... Don't bug the director. Don't ever talk to this person. There's ways about it.
Cathi Singh	I think, I look back. I've had a lot of correlations lately with synchro, that have showed me my trajectory and showed me my strengths. That's one of them, that I was part of a team. I was always the base. I'm a tall girl. I was always the base and we always had our, we called them peanuts, the lightest little ones we would fly. You could look at that as your star, your talent. I'm the unseen team. We're the ones under the water that want to be there, we're holding our breath. We're like, "Oh my gosh. Please fly, please fly, please fly. Please." Then we shoot her off and she does amazing and she looks great, but you'd never know that we were there. That's how it should be. You should never know. She should just look flawless, and we should just [inaudible 00:29:28].
Jodi Katz	Maybe on social you'll start giving some set etiquette tips for newbies.
Cathi Singh	Maybe. Okay, I can try that. Yeah.
Jodi Katz	Okay. The last think I want to talk about is you're a Glossier rep.
Cathi Singh	Yes.
Jodi Katz	I know there's not a ton of them, right?
Cathi Singh	I don't know actually. They reached out to me, I have a similar aesthetic, I think, to the glossier life, like the way the highlight, and the minimal ... They reached out and I've been sharing my favorites, and just sharing product. I love their products. I love the whole community. I like that everybody talks together and they listen to what the people buying the stuff are saying. We've been asking for a mascara, so for years she's been trying to develop a mascara, and then she does. She didn't just think, "Well I want to make a blush." She did what people were asking for and I think there's something to be said for that. I think that's neat. That's cool.
Jodi Katz	Yeah, it's very cool.
Cathi Singh	It's really cool. Well, I'm so delighted that you were our guest here today. It's so cool to sit with you, really. It's awesome. So grateful.
Jodi Katz	Thank you. This was an honor. Thank you. This is a very special moment.
Cathi Singh	And for our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode, I'm sure that you did. Please follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast, subscribe to us on iTunes, tell your friends, tell your mom, tell your dad.
Jodi Katz	Tell everybody.
Cathi Singh	Tell your brothers and sisters. Thanks Cathi.
Jodi Katz	Thank you so much.
Announcer	Thanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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