Episode 81: Kim Vo, Celebrity Colorist and Entrepreneur | WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY™ Podcast

10.23.2018

Episode 81: Kim Vo, Celebrity Colorist and Entrepreneur

Summary

They say the road to success isn’t always easy, but celebrity colorist, entrepreneur and TV personality Kim Vo knows it also doesn’t have to break you, either. His ever-expanding career now includes four salons, a show with Tori Spelling and a celebrity client list that reads like the homepage of TMZ. All of which have contributed to his reputation as the “Best Blonder In the Business.”

In this episode, he reveals how it all happened from humble beginnings, and how intention, effort and grace have kept him grounded as his star keeps rising.

This episode is part of our first video podcast series, Day In The Life.

Transcript

Announcer	Welcome to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® hosted by Jodi Katz, Founder and Creative Director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Jodi Katz	Hey there, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode. It's a really incredibly special episode that I recorded with celebrity colorist Kim Vo, and we did it at Cosmoprof in Vegas this past summer. We actually just sat in a booth in the middle of the show floor to record our podcast, and it's actually supplemented by an awesome day-in-the-life video that we filmed with Kim for fifteen hours all during his day at Cosmoprof and night. It's a really incredible look at a true behind the scenes day for Kim as he hustles his way through the industry, so please head to our website at wherebrainsmeetbeauty.com to check out the video. You'll learn a lot about Kim and enjoy all the hustle and hard work that he puts into his career. Please enjoy this episode. Please check out the video. If you missed last week's episode, it featured Kelly Campbell, she's the host of the "Thrive" podcast and she's part of our podcasters we love series. Thanks for tuning in.
Jodi Katz	And we're rocking.
Kim Vo	We're rolling. [crosstalk 00:01:17] This is awesome.
Jodi Katz	This is super special everybody. This is sort of meta right now, we're being filmed with video, we're being recorded with audio. My guest on WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® today is Kim Vo. I have a long list of accolades to read about you. Legendary colorist. Do you like the word legendary?
Kim Vo	I do not. It makes me feel old. I don't know. Legendary, I love it, but thank you.
Jodi Katz	Salon owner and operator, [crosstalk 00:01:38] which is a big deal.
Kim Vo	Behind the chair and still working salons.
Jodi Katz	T.V. hair expert of many many shows.
Kim Vo	Judge, now host with Tori Spelling on our "Look: All Stars."
Jodi Katz	And that's where we're spending most of the time with you today, is promoting "The Look: All Stars." Such a cool show.
Kim Vo	It's great 'cause it's a hair show that's an hour long that has everything with nails, makeup, hair, wardrobe. It's a full overall look.
Jodi Katz	I'm thrilled to be sitting with you today because you gave me the three "R's." You're "raw, reel, and relevant." What does that mean to you?
Kim Vo	It means really what I always say, "If you don't update, you're out of date." It's so tough being in this industry, now almost twenty years, I've had to go through a metamorphosis. I've had to really upgrade my game. What was twenty years ago isn't reality right now. Social media plays a huge side of this, but also being fortunate to be able to do reality T.V. Way in the day, "Extreme Makeover", "E", "Shear Genius", really has catapulted and helped me get to this place.
Jodi Katz	You were Bravo's star in "Shear Genius," I am a huge, huge, mega Bravo fan. What shows are you watching now?
Kim Vo	The Housewives, all of The Housewives, which I love. You know? I love the ninja, also. Like, the American Ninja where they do the body workout? There's something that when I want to get away from beauty, that's my little, "I can do it. I can work out, and get there."
Jodi Katz	That show is fascinating. We talk a lot about hustle [crosstalk 00:03:03] today, and think of the hustle those people go through.
Kim Vo	I love their dedication. I think that we forget sometimes when your passionate about something what hard work it took to get here. I think people just think you wake up one day and you're there, and they forget all the work that's put in. There's one episode of American Ninja where a guy from Alaska who had to get driftwood to build his things with. He had to actually go out to the wilderness and get the stuff they'd work out in, and I thought, "That's a hustle."
Jodi Katz	Right, so I wanna mention that when I first got connected with you, I spoke with you salon manager Karina, and I was asking questions about how you spend your time. I just sort of assumed you're doing this all the time. Out and about, in the universe. Meeting with people, greeting with people, doing a ton of interviews, and she's like, "He's really behind the chair most days. He's really in the salon." So what is salon life like for you?
Kim Vo	You know, my passion is behind the chair. When I got into this business, doing color, being a colorist, I was so fortunate to have Vogue voted me the best blonder in the business. With that accolade, you get to do some celebrities and things like that, but my passion's behind the chair and that true artistry. Talking about being real, raw and relevant. That real and that raw means always pushing myself, doing new color, opening myself to different things and different ways of doing things. That's what's really important.
Jodi Katz	I would think it's enough hustle just to run and operate two salons, right? So you have your clients, but you also have the management of the salon, right?
Kim Vo	Yes, I have the management. I have got a great team, but the reality is that I've got salons, a few of 'em, one that I can drive to, another one that I can fly to, and we just closed another one in Vegas. I was at the Mirage for eight years. I was working seven days a week for eight years and it was amazing, but I just wanted to take some of my personal time into that account. It's all a part of the process of working towards something.
Jodi Katz	When you decided to take a break from the way that you were living your professional life and say, "I'm taking more time for myself." Did you agonize over that decision?
Kim Vo	I think we all agonize. It depends on you personality. I think we understand that we're all balanced in the sense that if one thing takes more energy, it's gonna take away from something else. That was really the reality of it. My personal life, and just enjoying life and really bringing stuff back to the table was kinda getting diminished 'cause I didn't take vacations, or I didn't take time off. And they would say, "Just wait. Smell the roses. Stop and smell the roses." I really wasn't doing that. It was really important to me.
Jodi Katz	I have friends who are freelance makeup artists, doing a lot of editorial and commercial work. Their big lament is they're never around for those big life moments for their friends and their family. If they're booked on a big gig and it's in some island and it's for seven days of taking the gig 'cause that's their livelihood, but they're missing so much else. Is that what you were feeling? Were you missing things?
Kim Vo	In Los Angeles, we have a funny magazine club, "Angeline Looks Fabulous." It states all the new restaurants, and my friends keep asking me, "Have you been to this restaurant? Have you been to that restaurant? You live in the city." I'm like, "No, I literally go home." I do events, but we're so busy in the moment that on the weekends, I was flying to the other salons. I love doing it. I don't wanna make it sound like someone put a gun to my head, but I love it, but I was missing out on those little moments that were really important to go back and be an entrepreneur, to have that time off and to really sit there and say, "What's the next step?"
Jodi Katz	That's scary to take the next step when you're changing. You told me you're in an evolution moment.
Kim Vo	Every five to ten years, and it coincides with my lease, where my lease space. I really ask, "Is this the space for me? What's next?" We're in a ten year cycle right now, in October, it'll be our tenth year at the current salon. We're totally changing, re-branding things up. We're literally going in and choosing a whole different vibe, a whole different feel. It's quite honestly Jodi, it's nerve-wracking. It's absolutely nerve-wracking because it's something that we're stepping away from.
Jodi Katz	What is the scariest part of that?
Kim Vo	Knowing what you have to do, and having the courage to do it.
Jodi Katz	Like what? Give me an example.
Kim Vo	We've got to not be anymore a Beverly Hills salon. We've got to be a Beverly Hills salon that's in a cool, hip area. That is dealing with millennials, dealing with social media, dealing with the wall, that we're gonna have to put up roses. And color millennial pink and some crazy colors that I'm not used to it. I'm used to old-fashioned do a reality show, go share about it, and now we're gonna have to do things like get a swing-set.
Jodi Katz	So you're gonna be creating a salon that has all these Instagramable moments [crosstalk 00:07:46] built in it?
Kim Vo	'Cause I honestly feel on Instagram, if you don't take a picture, you weren't there. Life doesn't exist without taking that picture, getting that moment, and Instagram is a beautiful thing. It's a great way to show your art, show what you're doing. I'm meeting influencers that are making a living off of this, which is amazing.
Jodi Katz	It makes me think of, I was talking to the makeup artist this morning and she was lamenting about how she does all these great gigs with high profile people, but she signs these NDA's that she's not allowed [crosstalk 00:08:16] to post the pictures.
Kim Vo	Oh my god, I've got so many NDA's, you don't even know. That's the tough part.
Jodi Katz	She's like, "How do I market these things on social when I can't take my own pictures?" And I'm like, "Well just go online and pull pictures from their own feed and say "It was great to work with you today."" You have to do it, though.
Kim Vo	I'll give you a great example. We just did extra. We did a beautiful piece of a makeover. We can't post it until tomorrow night because it's gonna show tomorrow night. We did show some pictures of it, behind the scenes, but we couldn't show the hair. It becomes kind of like, "Wait and see. Watch us." There's a whole dance there too, but like I was saying, it's interesting how there's some things you can't share. Celebrities without makeup.
Jodi Katz	We'll have to talk about celebrities. We talked a little bit about it while we were walking the Cosmoprof floor, but how important is it to, in your business right now, to be aligned with celebrities?
Kim Vo	It used to be where it was 100% there is always something special if you can align yourself with a celebrity, but now with social media, with great products. I really think that that's now going towards social media where if you've got influencers, you've got people who believe in it. It goes back to what I believe, the proof's in the pudding, great work, great product, great nail polish, great wigs, great extensions, all that really prevails. I think that that has to go back to the artisan and the craft of each business. That will prevail more than connecting with a celebrity. I think sometimes you're all a little jaded. We sometimes think that celebrity's getting paid, they're not using it. You have to be authentic.
Jodi Katz	I wanna come back to this evolution period you're in right now where you're gonna pick up an move and start sort of a new image for your brand, but I wanna talk about the look for a second. Because you are not a judge on "The Look."
Kim Vo	No, it's my first time co-hosting with Tori Spelling, and it was done purposely. I'm more of a style guru, so what does that mean? That means that I really am there as a mentor like Tim Guns, but I've got a bite. I'm gonna have this sweet taste that has a little bite to it.
Jodi Katz	Give me an example of what that bite [crosstalk 00:10:20] sound like.
Kim Vo	Well, I've said once, "You can't do that look. It's too different look. It's like taking a laxative and a sleeping pill." These are things you can't do together. I'm very visual in my concepts and what I'm thinking about. It just helps them be better stylists, be better at what they do.
Jodi Katz	Do you have to sort of like, hold on to the table and let them just make their mistakes 'cause you're not the judge? You're just guiding them.
Kim Vo	It's so funny you say that. I do have to hold on and bite my tongue 'cause I'm not the judge, but I really don't want to give bad advice. It's already out. This happens all the time on the red carpet. People will slick hair back and do beautiful work in the back. Well, when you're taking a photograph in the front, there's nothing in the back that will show, and so this poor team did a beautiful thing and had to take it apart because they didn't understand that if you take a picture, your hair is slicked back, you're not gonna see all that artistry in the back.
Jodi Katz	You also, as the woman wearing that low pony look bald in all your photos.
Kim Vo	Exactly. I was sharing that with them. I called it full frontal face. I said, "You don't ever want just that one... You have to train them, or teach the celebrity or the model to turn around, be playful with it 'cause you'll never see it." Poor things had like twenty minutes left, they had to go back and do a whole different style. I wanna avoid things like that, but I also wanna give 'em that insight, that negative information.
Jodi Katz	What if it was a high pony, would that have worked?
Kim Vo	It would've been great, but again, I think with camera angles. These things that they don't think about, as a stylist, doing the red carpet for so many years, you think about. 'Cause you see your work, right there on camera.
Jodi Katz	Just like you see yourself on camera all the time.
Kim Vo	Oh my god, I hate hearing my voice. [crosstalk 00:12:03] Does anyone ever like hearing their voice? The first time I heard my voice, I'm like, "Do I really sound like that?" That's so crazy.
Jodi Katz	Do you think about this? I'm new to the camera. I feel really great on the pod, nobody can see me, kind of sneaking behind the scenes, but this is my first day really being in front of cameras-
Kim Vo	Really? You look good.
Jodi Katz	Yeah, well, you've been carrying me this whole time, but do you think about the way you look? And do nitpick at yourself?
Kim Vo	Oh gosh. I would say it's like your elbow. If you look at it too long, it's ugly. Do not look at your elbow.
Jodi Katz	Elbows are weird. [crosstalk 00:12:35]
Kim Vo	They're weird. Knees and elbows. It's like that with film. If you saw some of "The Look," there's some pictures, I'm like, "Why did you pick that picture. I feel enormous in it." Camera adds ten to twenty pounds. It really does, and it sounds funny. That's why I'm vegan now. I wanna be skinny. Skinny skinny.
Jodi Katz	I've really always been a behind the scenes person, and it's only through the podcast where I'm trying to not be, out of the advice of my team. I look at these things, these images of me, and I get uncomfortable, and then I have to practice being comfortable with myself. This is who I am in the world. This is the body I have. My arms work. My legs work. My brain works. I'm healthy. I'm happy. And really focus on the gratitude and not obsess about these other details, but it's hard.
Kim Vo	And that's healthy, but you know what healthy is? [crosstalk 00:13:27] That's hard to do. It's work.
Jodi Katz	I talk to myself in my head, I really do. I chant to myself. I walk myself back off the ledge very often.
Kim Vo	We do this all the time. You know, I said this earlier, our minds sometimes are toxic, our hearts are so emotional, but our gut is always right, for my it is. I always listen to the gut. The gut never tells you what it wants. It always is the opposite of what you think it's gonna be.
Jodi Katz	So what I wanna talk about now is something you told me that I really was surprised that I had no idea that you have a side hustle, just like I have a side hustle. So you're moving your salon and you're gonna redecorate your salon, but you're also moving your home.
Kim Vo	Yes, I love redecorating and architecture and all this. I think it's important when you're in the beauty industry and when you're [inaudible 00:14:14] in any career, in the media, wherever, I think you need an escape. An escapism that you can literally just switch the brain over. Mine happens to be decorating and décor and fixing up homes. This is my eighth home I'm fixing up and selling.
Jodi Katz	We need another T.V. show. We need you doing your flipping a house show. I would watch that.
Kim Vo	It's so much fun.
Jodi Katz	My kids would watch it too.
Kim Vo	Honestly, it's so much fun and it's funny 'cause I didn't think I was a flipper. I just kept flipping 'em, and finally my realtor is like, "You know this is your eighth home, right?" I'm like, "Really?" So yeah, that gets me to escape. It gets my brain working. It helps me out, certain things like that.
Jodi Katz	What I've realized as an entrepreneur is that I do better, mental health-wise, when I have a project. I go for projects, so for me a recent project was finding a new office for ourselves. I went from a kind of in the hole sort of moment, down in the dumps kind of space to completely focused on finding the new space, something that felt like us, in a great neighborhood, and it changed my mindset completely. Does this help you, in that sense?
Kim Vo	It's exactly what I'm tryin' to share, which is the artist, Michelangelo or Picasso, they would always work on piece of artwork, step away, and then revisit it, and they would do that 'cause they would have a different type of light, different type of eye. I think that's what you need to do. You need to truly step away sometimes from something you're doing and totally recalibrate. That's why vacations are great, but just recalibrate. And then go back as a fresh set of eyes, and I've been so fortunate to be able to do that with decorating and remodeling and all this stuff with the house. 'Cause it is artistic, but completely different than the beauty world.
Jodi Katz	And what are you looking for in your next home? Is it like a total disaster that you wanna reinvigorate? [crosstalk 00:16:02]
Kim Vo	I look at homes like my relationships. It's got a broken wing, I'll date you. If you've got two broken wings, I'll marry you. I'm lookin' for the ultimate fixer-upper. It's true!
Jodi Katz	I love that you're honest about that. The journey of looking for the new home, is it months and months of process or you just sort of like, "I see something, I want it and I do it."
Kim Vo	I'm so fortunate, this house just went on the market yesterday. We've got showings. It'll probably sell within a few days. I'll probably have a month from now. If we talked a month from now, I'll probably have a new home before I have a new salon. It wasn't planned out that way. It honestly wasn't. It was just kind of one of those things where my realtor asked me, as a friend, "Are you happy? What's going on? It's the two year mark. You usually get fidgety around this time." I'm like, "I'm totally happy." And then I went home, and I was like, "hmm." It's like when you go to a plastic surgeon for a nose, and they're like, "What about a chin?" And you're like, "I am happy with my chin." And then you go home and you're like, "Maybe I'm not.
Jodi Katz	But do you think since she knows you so well, you've been working with her for so many years, that she actually saw that you needed a new project?
Kim Vo	Absolutely 'cause I know when I get bored. I know when I'm like, "Uh, it's OK."
Jodi Katz	So do you think finding the new salon is gonna take longer than finding a new home?
Kim Vo	I've got the new salon. We're decorating it. We're doing it. It's just permits, and stuff like that. Great space.
Jodi Katz	[crosstalk 00:17:21] So you're not hesitant on that. You're able to just keep moving.
Kim Vo	No, it's so funny. It's so weird in life. The salon I'm confident in 'cause I have a task list of what I really needed to do, so that's where it's really excited. With the house I'm completely open to what it brings, where adventure comes in.
Jodi Katz	And you've lived through the mess? You sleep there?
Kim Vo	I've stayed through the mess. I've lived in hotels. I've lived in guest houses. I've done everything that it takes. There's some I should've moved out, I didn't, but it's a part of the journey. It's a part of having fun. I like seeing progress.
Jodi Katz	Do you have an aesthetic? What is the Kim Vo look for homes?
Kim Vo	All white. [crosstalk 00:17:59] I'm so bad.
Jodi Katz	It's so good we're in this all white universe.
Kim Vo	As a colorist, you'd think I'd love all these colors, but I think white is all different colors blended in one. I love all white. I think a clean, zen feel is what I love.
Jodi Katz	Do you have any pets?
Kim Vo	I don't have any pets, but I did have a pet. She was a Maltipoo, so she didn't shed. That's kind of the perfect pet, all white that doesn't shed.
Jodi Katz	Tell me more about what this new salon brand is gonna be. What is it gonna mean for you?
Kim Vo	So the new salon is a bungalow feel. It's more of a very, approachable luxury. It's a part of Beverly Hills is a home setting, and there's gonna be moments, I call 'em, we serve cappuccinos, we serve all these things that have nothing really to do with the hair service, but just the moments service, and feeling great about it. I want it to be the home, your home away from home.
Jodi Katz	What I love about the salon business, and I don't think this will ever change and I think this is why the salon business is such a fantastic business to be in, is that you have that human-to-human contact. Right? And touch, you get to touch each other. I just think that so many marketers and brands outside of the salon world are so hyper-emphasizing, social influencer and blah blah blah, and they really are forgetting about human-to-human contact. You telling me something you like. I tell you something I like, and that's how we spread the word.
Kim Vo	It's really about the relationship. It's really about building those relationships and keeping true relationships, that's what's exciting about that. That's the one thing that got me into this field, is being able to connect with my clients. You would never believe this, at a party, I'm actually shy. I'm not like this, "Hi! I'm here! I'm Kim! Here I am!" I'm a Leo too, I actually should be, but I'm actually really like, I like those moments where you have deep conversations, you get something out of it. I think with a client, I'm all focus, I'm all there. It could be an A-list celebrity, or your mom, or a daughter or anybody. I really feel equal with all of 'em. You know?
Jodi Katz	So, let's talk about your mom. You mentioned the word, mom. She's in the nail salon business.
Kim Vo	She was. I grew up in the nail. She still is. I've retired her, this is by choice. My mother, Mai. A little Vietnamese mother who's amazing, lives in Palm Springs. A lot of this is, I get my grace and dignity from her. Hard worker, and she really taught me the way, how things were done. We came here, I moved here when I was a baby, but when she came here, she had, talking about hustle, she had to do nails. She worked two jobs, a maid and a manicurist.
Jodi Katz	Did she know how to do nails? Or she just had to figure it out?
Kim Vo	You know why I think a lot of Vietnamese people go into nails? 'Cause they were so lovely, teaching one another how to do it, and you know when you think they're talking about you, and they're whispering. They're actually telling each other what to do, so sometimes if you're insecure, you think, "They're taking about me." And sometimes they are, they're totally talking about you. They're totally talking about you! But the ones that are first starting out, they're just sharing with them what the next step is and how to go though the process.
Jodi Katz	That's such a nice way to think about it because we think culturally, we think that that's funny, that people in other languages are talking about us when services are being performed, but it actually has nothing to do with you. You're talking about a beautiful community, supportive community.
Kim Vo	And that's why you have certain communities that have a lot of people in them, but in the narrow world, it's so transcended now, it's been so different. In the Vietnamese world they'd help one another. I grew up literally in a Mini-Mall. Literally, summers I'd spend in a Mini-Mall, so it's fabulous.
Jodi Katz	Is she adept at nail art?
Kim Vo	She's old school. She did more of the maintenance and the acrylics, and some gels, and we're seeing the evolution of nails are beauty. Between the nail art and getting into the artistry, it's so amazing. Of course she could do it, I just think it's not in her play house.
Jodi Katz	Right. Women were wearing red or ballet slippers-
Kim Vo	Exactly, the French nails or whatever it was they were doing.
Jodi Katz	So when you told your mother that you wanted to be in the hair industry, tell us what happened.
Kim Vo	You know, it's funny. I think every immigrant parent feels this, they want their child to be so much more educated, better off, and in the Asian community, not to stereotype, but in the Asian community, they want you to be a doctor, lawyer, architect, engineer, anything professional. So when I told my mother I wanted to do hair, she said, "Great." I was like, "Really?" And she goes, "Until you get a job. Until you get a profession. That's amazing." I was like, "No, no, this is my profession." And she was like, "No. No. This can't be a profession." And it was a little hardship for her 'cause she really wanted a better life for me and you know, it is a tough business. Hair, nails, beauty, it's a very tough business. It's not for the faint at heart.
Jodi Katz	That makes me think about clientele-ing, which is not a word I ever knew until entering this industry. Just the art of being able to connect with your clients, how did you learn that? Or when did you learn that?
Kim Vo	It goes back to being real. Being honest with your clients. When I first started my career, was I the best colorist in the world? No. Did I try my best? Yes. My intent was always to be better every day and try everything that I could to make that client happy, and I'll give you an inside on a client of mine that's a celebrity. There are times she's in a foul mood, I know it has nothing to do with me, and I think sometimes people pick up on that energy and they're like, "I don't know what's wrong with her." I would just wish her good thoughts as I was doing her hair, like, "I hope you well. I hope blessings. I wish you well." It has nothing to do with me. I think your intent in life really has a reactory process. Usually she'll leave fantastic, saying, "You are the best." It's very funny how you learn that as you go on, your intent. What you put out there, how important it is, and even in the face of someone maybe not having the best day, you can make their day better, and you can really change the situation around.
Jodi Katz	She might actually look forward to her time in your chair because she knows that she's in a funk, and she needs your help.
Kim Vo	It's so interesting 'cause of course, when I first did her and she was in a funk, I thought, "Did I do something wrong? She loves me. I love her. What's wrong?" Once I got out of my head, which is I think toxic sometimes, and then out of my heart, and it's my gut which says, "This has nothing to do with me. This is her, going through a script, frustrated with her producer, whatever it is, and I'm just gonna enjoy and think good thoughts." Good hair, good thoughts, and it works every time.
Jodi Katz	I love that advice. It's something I've started to use. I didn't always do that. I'd go to the self-doubt place first, which is "What did I do? I screwed something up." [crosstalk 00:24:41]
Kim Vo	Of course, we all do that.
Jodi Katz	But-
Kim Vo	I say sorry all the time. [crosstalk 00:24:45] You could spill something, I'll still say sorry.
Jodi Katz	Stop doing that.
Kim Vo	And I've learned, but that's what I'm saying. We go to that self-doubt.
Jodi Katz	So I started to think bless her, bless him, and just put good energy toward that person. [crosstalk 00:24:59]
Kim Vo	Sorry to bless him. Wow, you graduated. [crosstalk 00:25:01]
Jodi Katz	Eleven years in therapy, this takes time.
Jodi Katz	With our last few minutes I wanna talk about something that you revealed to me that I thought was so cool. You have a fuck-it list.
Kim Vo	Can we cuss on this?
Jodi Katz	We can today, we'll put an explicit message on it.
Kim Vo	OK, or I'll call it an eff-it list. How 'bout an eff-it list?
Jodi Katz	Okay, your eff-it list and you also have a bucket list.
Kim Vo	I have a bucket list 'cause we all, I hope, have bucket lists. Things that we really wanna do. My bucket list is things that you wanna do before you die. My eff-it list is things I wanna do to live. My eff-it list to live are things that, don't have to be so serious. It doesn't have to be visiting Vietnam again or Mount Rushmore, which is on my bucket list. My eff-it list is things like, taking Zumba and having the courage, every time I go to a public class, I get in my head, I lose the moves, I lose everything, and it's just getting out of your head and your comfort zone.
Jodi Katz	What's in your head when you say getting out of your head. What's happening in your head?
Kim Vo	What's in my head. Oh my gosh, people are gonna say I'm a horrible Zumba, I've never taken Zumba before, all these self-doubts. Things that I would judge myself on.
Jodi Katz	This is so revealing for me to hear because I never would've thought that Kim Vo would walk into a gym class and feel anything but confident.
Kim Vo	Can you imagine the pressure?
Jodi Katz	I think more people need to speak the way that you're speaking, which is like every time I've gone to a new gym I get nervous. I used to faint, actually. I was a fainter, so I would get so nervous that I would faint. If I knew that other people felt this way too I probably wouldn't have got so nervous.
Kim Vo	You know, I honestly did take that Zumba class, I thought I was so clever by being in the back until they turned all around, and did everything where I was in the front. I was like, "Oh my god, I know none of these moves." I literally hit people. I was like, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry." It was a mess, but at least I did it. I felt great.
Jodi Katz	So it's really hard to be vulnerable is what you're saying.
Kim Vo	Very difficult, and I think more people should be vulnerable. I try to be vulnerable, I really do.
Jodi Katz	I think that I don't know that I'm more vulnerable in any time than when I am working out because I really feel like there's an inner athlete in me trying to escape. And I'm working really hard, and I'm sweaty. I'm smelly, and I actually thought it would be a great supplement to the pods to actually work out with the executives. Not talk the whole because we wanna work hard because that's you're greatest vulnerability. You're sweaty and you're messy. There's no hair and makeup. There's no great clothes. You get full angles. And we fail at things during workout. I can't jump as high as I want, or maybe I can't even jump at all that day.
Kim Vo	No, and the honest truth is, we in our minds, of the mind's eye or what we should do, could do, and it usually doesn't match up with reality.
Jodi Katz	But I think it's just societal pressures. I've always felt like I needed to be performing for other people. Which is not healthy. I have to be true to me.
Kim Vo	And this is why my eff-it list is so important because it's things that I really always have been curious to try, curious to do, but didn't have maybe the courage. Just always wanted to do, but I kept saying to myself, "It's no big enough of a wish. I'm not worthy of that. I have to have something bigger to spend energy towards it." So when I came up with my eff-it list, I was like, "No, I can do it just to do it, just for the heck of it."
Jodi Katz	Right, so I love this 'cause it's kind of a no regrets philosophy.
Kim Vo	It's a no regret philosophy, and I've done Zumba three times. That's about it. I don't need to do it forever. It's just one of those things.
Jodi Katz	Right, but the way you feel about yourself and the dignity you have in just taking that action is really-
Kim Vo	No dignity left after Zumba.
Jodi Katz	No, there is! There's a ton of dignity in saying, "I made myself uncomfortable. I did something that had a value to me for whatever reason, and I lived through it."
Kim Vo	I hate to keep talking about Zumba, can I tell you? I tried once to go to a Zumba class. Before it started, I crawled out to escape and these were windows that were almost floor to ceiling. I had to go ninja style, and crawl out. I was pretending I was gonna get water and crawled out. That's how petrified I was until I actually took the class.
Jodi Katz	But you put it on your list and you did it.
Kim Vo	I put it on my list, and everyone get an eff-it list 'cause that's when you live. That's when you're gonna enjoy life.
Jodi Katz	Yes. I love this. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today. [crosstalk 00:29:25] And for our listeners, please follow us on Instagram @wherebrainsmeetbeautypodcast and subscribe to us on iTunes. Thanks Kim.
Kim Vo	Thank you Jodi.
Announcer	Thanks for listening to WHERE BRAINS MEET BEAUTY® with Jodi Katz. Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.

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